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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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 Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: Americans Pretend as Canadians to Avoid Anti-American Brits. |
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Found this article. I thought it was quite interesting.
| Quote: |
Anti-Americanism 'feels like racism'
Christian Cox, a US citizen living in London, wrote to the BBC news website to express her concern about the amount of abuse she receives because of her nationality.
She says the level of anti-Americanism she has experienced "feels like a kind of racism".
"I don't want anyone to feel sorry for Americans, or me, I just want people to realise that we are dealing with hatred too."
Read some of your comments at the bottom of this page.
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Typical British pub banter is one thing, says Christian Cox, but the "pure hatred" she says is directed at her for being American is really starting to wear her down.
The former model moved to London a year ago, where she is setting up her own business, and has been surprised at how some people have reacted to her nationality.
Ms Cox, 29, says she has been called, among other things, "terrorist", "scum", "low life", and feels that she is constantly being held to account for the actions of President Bush and for US foreign policy.
This is despite the fact that she doesn't agree with the war in Iraq and didn't vote for Bush.
However she adds: "Bush is our leader and I respect that. It's a bit like the way you feel about your father. You don't always agree with him, but you would defend him."
She has travelled widely in other parts of Europe, Mexico, Canada and Australia but says this is the first time her pride in her country has been challenged in such a vitriolic way.
"People would make jokes about Americans but I didn't experience the pure hatred I have had since I came to live here.
"I appreciate that British people often don't understand why I have so much pride, they think it's brainwashing.
"And I do think some people in the US need to be more educated about what's going on in the world.
"But some people just fly off the handle without even talking to me - it's as if they had been waiting to run into an American all day to let their feelings out," she says.
To avoid confrontations she says she lowers her voice on the Underground and in pubs.
But in one incident an older man asked her directly if she was American.
"When I said yes he said: 'I just want you to know that I think you are the poorest people I have ever met in my life' - meaning we were low-life.
"I said I was sorry he felt that way, but that I disagreed."
The man started shouting obscenities at her group. The row developed into a brawl and Ms Cox suffered a black eye as she tried to pull two people apart.
"After that I cried for two days, then booked a flight back to the States. I felt so hated, I needed to be with people who loved me."
Some friends now advise her to tell people she is Canadian, to deflect potential abuse, an option she calls "sad".
'Culture shock'
However it is advice that teacher Francesca Terry, 28, who grew up in Seattle, recognises.
She has lived in London for four years and is married with a daughter.
"I was aware before I moved here that when you travelled abroad it was always better to say you were Canadian if you could get away with it. But we treated it more like a joke."
She was subjected to verbal abuse in the first year or so in Britain, but things calmed down particularly when she had her daughter and stopped going out to pubs so much.
"When I first came here it was part of the culture shock. I felt really naive, I had thought I would go unnoticed here.
"I would go out and I'd just get picked on by people taking pot shots. I just didn't speak when we went out. What shocked me was that people would just say the rudest comments."
But she adds that she has a close group of girlfriends from the US, many of whom say they have not had similar experiences.
She says she is still cautious when she's out and about: "If people ask where I'm from I say 'the States, but the part near Canada'."
"I feel bad about saying that, but it is out of a kind of guilt, I just don't want to get into it with people. When I do, I tell them these are not my choices. I understand my president makes bad decisions, but that's not me."
The US embassy in London declined to comment on the story.
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The following comments reflect the balance of opinions received.
It is so sad to meet bigotry in any form
Lynda Blackwod, Shetland Isles
I am Scottish and proud of it. I spent fourteen years living in the USA, I married a dual national. Whilst I lived there I met many individuals who became my friends but I also met many arrogant, ignorant individuals who knew nothing about the world outside of the USA. It is so sad to meet bigotry in any form, but it is on both sides of the "pond", being a Scot I have met the same when I lived and worked in England, sad but true.
Lynda Blackwod, Shetland Isles
I am American and have lived in the UK since 1988. I have not experienced anything but warm hospitality and acceptance by the British. I certainly find Londoners to be some of the most tolerant people on earth. May I suggest that Ms Cox simply get out of the pub because the best time to witness the British (or Americans) at their worst is when they are drunk.
Kay Konop, London, UK
I'm an American who has lived in London for over 6 years and suffered no ill treatment like Ms Cox has described from Britons or from Europeans. Most of the time if there are comments they are about American politics or behaviour. A large percentage of the time individuals are more interested in finding out about life in America. As a Hispanic American I have felt more welcomed and respected living and working in Europe than I have in my own "home" country.
Alicia, London
When I lived in London, I never met the same type of hostility that Ms Cox has experienced. Only once did I feel that someone made an inappropriate remark to me concerning the actions of the US government. For the most part, my experiences were positive and I found that I could easily discuss politics with my British colleagues - regardless of whether or not we agreed. However, at the same time, I have to say that living in London changed my perspective on the world and helped me to see a much larger picture that most Americans will never know by simply following the news in the US media.
Robert, Chicago, IL, USA
All of us, by identity, carry the flag of our own countries. But, people forget that that doesn't mean we are all agree with our administrations. If we can vote them in, we can also vote them out! What worries me is when a person has to lower her voice to hide her identity. That's just reflects how tunnel-visioned we remain.
Mel Shore, USA
Hatred against Americans is not rife here. I've worked with and know personally many Americans and I know them to be charming, courteous people. I've heard no complaints from them, but then they've been here longer than Christian Cox and aren't trying to attract attention for their new business.
Julie, UK
I'm an African-American who has been living in London for a year now. I've yet to experience one iota of in-person prejudice or harassment. Then again, I'm living in Hackney. Most people feel sorry for me - even though Hackney is the most wonderful, diverse, culturally rich places I've been in London! I think the root of Ms Cox's difficulties are rooted in both her power and privilege. Even unconsciously acted upon - it is still read by others as arrogance.
Christina Springer, London, UK
I am an American living in Bradford (Muslim population 300,000, American Population 1) So perhaps I'm in a good position to comment. I have noticed anger towards America increasing over the last few years, but I have never felt that I was treated badly, or as a walking representative of disastrous American foreign policy.
Richard, Bradford
Anti-American sentiment clearly runs high in the UK, but there can be no defence of people abusing Ms Cox. But why would any intelligent person blindly defend the actions of another? Bush is no benevolent "father figure" worthy of unquestioning love, he is a politician, and the man who orchestrated the invasion of Iraq. The line between "national pride" and the tacit approval of Bush's actions are blurred in her comments. Until Ms Cox can reconcile this conflict perhaps it would be best if she continues to "keep her voice down".
Gavin Scott, Edinburgh, UK
Anyone that abuses a person because of their nationality is guilty of racism regardless of which nation that person comes from
David McLean, Liverpool, UK
As a Muslim studying abroad I can sympathise with her. However, she has only suffered a black eye and had hurtful words thrown at her, whereas I have family members who are now buried six feet under in Basra due to her government's actions.
Ahmed, UK
I had no idea that the British people felt that way about Americans. It is difficult for others to understand that in any country (yours, mine) the people are not the voice of the government. Why do people insist on taking their anger out on the citizens?
Brucine Lukaart, Michigan, USA
I know exactly what she means. I have lived here for more than 20 years and there is no question it exists. However, over time I have to see it less as hatred and more sibling rivalry. I think the English also love America and feel connection with it. I can't say the constant little digs don't hurt sometimes, but all in all I love England and compared to how other races fare here, we don't do too bad. (Try being French... or dare I say of coloured skin from India or Pakistan)
Tom Hewson, London, UK
If you want a cheap joke, nothing is easier than to take a swipe at Bush or America. Many British comedians that should know better are aware of this. In my opinion, most people who feel inclined to say such things are generally ill-informed on political matters, and such comments are an attempt to hide their ignorance.
Dan Jones, York
I am Japanese and have lived in this country since I was three. I have experienced various kinds of verbal taunts and racist remarks all throughout my life. It sad that two grown women are focusing in on their experiences as if they were unique. They should understand that to be a foreigner in any other country will invite those jingoistic and hateful to target them no matter what. If a three-year-old girl could make it, so can they.
Saki Baba, London
There are millions of Americans who are disgusted by the actions of their government. As Brits we should be careful not to cast stones because we elected Mr Blair, and if one country had it in its power to prevent the war in Iraq it was ours.
Ben Gould, London
It's very unfortunate that individuals should be singled out like this purely because of where they come from. But I would say to Christian Cox, don't defend Bush if you don't agree with him, and don't express unqualified pride in your country which is - like ours - great, but flawed, and you might get a better reception from most Brits!
David Ewen, London
I would agree that in general Americans are a loathsome, naive, petulant bunch, but then the fact that we in Britain allow ourselves to be so influenced by them makes us 10 times worse.
Craig Eastman, Liverpool, UK
If you suspect your 'Canadian' is actually American, ask them to name three provinces (excluding Ontario). Or ask them what the capital of Saskatchewan is. You'll soon know. (We don't like the either, by the way.)
Jim Connolly, Toronto, Canada
I've been in a few tense situations since moving to the UK, but nothing on the level of the harassment Ms Cox has had to endure. I usually defuse the situation by saying "Yes, I'm an American - and I'd like to apologise". You can always ask them if they've ever voted for Tony Blair. Treat such people like you would any other rude person - get away from them. There's a time and a place to discuss how you as an expat relate to your country: in a pub with an angry stranger probably ain't it.
Rose Judson, Birmingham, UK
I can understand how upsetting it is for people such as Ms Cox. However, I think Americans need to be educated in such a way that equips them better to travel without appearing to treat to rest of the world like an extension of Disneyland. I frequently hear patronising, insensitive comments made by American tourists who are tarnishing the reputation of their compatriots.
Tom Watson, Rome, Italy
If you are English and go to live in Scotland you are likely to get exactly this kind of treatment. It is pure racism.
Oliver, UK
I'm an American living in Belgium and it shocks me to see that Americans probably receive more "racist" comments in Europe than the immigrants we so often read are being discriminated against. My grandfather fought here in WWII and sometimes I think of the irony that it is their freedom he secured than makes me feel so insecure in Europe.
Charles, Brussels, Belgium
I don't defend my father when he is wrong, only when he is right, only a fool would do otherwise. How is Bush to learn if even those who didn't vote for him become his apologists.
John Sinclair, Dundee, UK
As a Brit living in the US I receive only good things about my country and am proud to say I am British as people are even nicer to me because of it. Therefore I find it very sad that my country cannot offer the same courtesy to Americans in England.
Stephanie Cottrill, Miami, USA
Although I disagree with US politics and foreign policy, I would always be friendly and welcoming to Americans in our country. Any Americans who are feeling offended in the UK are welcome round my house for a traditional steak and kidney pudding and some nice English ale!
Martin, Chesterfield, UK
How about interviewing an American that supports our president instead of making a point of interviewing two Americans that apparently feel they have to make concessions by saying they disagree with him? Your story makes it seem as if the anti-American anger is justified but simply misdirected away from the president.
Allen T, CA, USA
Is it any surprise that Americans get held to account for their country's rapacious and evil foreign policy? As individuals every American I have met in this country have been perfectly nice but your government's actions condemn you all. If you don't like it then you need to campaign harder at home. I would be ashamed of being English abroad at the moment, because of the actions of OUR government. And just think, if Americans are hated this much in the UK what do you think the opinion of the Arab and Persian world might be?
Chris Blackman, London, England
It is little wonder that there is such a dislike and misunderstanding of Americans and American foreign policy when you consider the thread of anti-Americanism that runs through almost every related story that the BBC presents. Who do you think you are?
Eddie Chalmers, Dundee, UK
I am married to a British national and did a posting with the Canadian High Commission in London from 2000-2004. I suffered verbal abuse on a few occasions when people thought I was American. It got to the point where my husband asked that we not talk on the Tube into London and I wore a Canadian Maple Leaf lapel pin.
Pam Saunders, Singapore
Ms Cox is perhaps a tad naive to take the abuse she receives so personally. Americans are easy targets right now and thanks, not in small part, to the British press it's easy for people to target one US national for the others' actions. But it's not just Americans who get this, prejudice is rampant in this country. For example, I live in Wales and I've seen English people here being beaten up for being English.
Andy, Cardiff, UK
My American relatives visit the UK frequently. When here they go to pubs, restaurants, stores, historical sites etc and never once have they been subjected to criticism or insults. So one is led to ask, "Is this reported abuse of Americans a London phenomenon?"
PW, East Midlands
As a Seattleite living in London I often find that I can get away with pretending to be Canadian as well. And I do. I am ashamed to be American. I didn't vote for Bush and I don't support the Iraq war and I feel American foreign policy is abhorrent. But I also find that people will assume I'm a thick headed, right-wing, McDonald's loving, anti-Islamic, fundamentalist Christian, intolerant, homophobic idiot. That couldn't be further from the truth, but I never get a chance to show people who I really am.
Emilie Dingler-Meek, London, England
Christian Cox should have confidence in her country and treat the people who express such anti-American remarks with the contempt they deserve. She must expect criticism, but not insult - and she must say that she is American and proud of it, and walk away. Arguing with bigots is a complete waste of energy.
Mike Fox, London, England.
I feel no pity for Americans working abroad - they get to see first hand what their foreign policies are doing to the rest of the world.
Ian Anderson, Aberdeen, UK
Cry me a river. How much American tolerance and openness do Iranian visitors to the US experience these days? We can't pick and choose the aspects of our national image we want to be identified with. This extreme form of individualism - 'I'm only responsible for what I myself did, not what my government does in my name' - is precisely the sort of thing which gives Americans such a bad name.
Scott, Stirling, UK
As a rule, any opinion expressed in a British pub should be ignored.
Andrew , Montreal, Canada
Ms Cox shouldn't really be surprised in the current climate. More and more people are coming to realise the US administration is the biggest terrorist organisation in the world. Unfortunately, their citizens will increasingly take the backlash, even though many of them are against US foreign policy - just as many Muslims are against such atrocities as 9/11 and Bali.
John Lockett, Burnley, UK
I am shocked and disgusted at the people on this board, in particular Scott in Stirling and Ian Anderson, who condone this vile behaviour. Perhaps they wished the USA hadn't interfered in WWII? When you visit America they are the most welcoming of hosts and very friendly towards us Brits. Furthermore when America follows isolationist policies the rest of the world complains they don't do enough. I'm sure the Bosnian Muslims would like to thank America for pushing NATO to take action in the Balkans when the rest of Europe turned a blind eye.
Alex Taylor, Bolton, UK
I have a question for my esteemed British cousins - what is it that 'America' is doing that you yourselves are not? We invaded Iraq. So did you. We invaded Afghanistan. So did you. We support Israel with money and weapons. So do you. We have nukes. So do you. Our military is deployed in other people's countries in order to make them do what we want. As is yours. The more I think about it, Britain is about the least qualified nation on earth to condemn 'American' foreign policy.
John, Los Angeles, USA
Craig Eastman's comment "that in general Americans are a loathsome, naive, petulant bunch", ironically indicates the very thing Americans are accused of elsewhere in this discussion - being insular and having stereotypical views of the world. Has Mr Eastman ever strayed far from Merseyside. Perhaps he should visit the USA?
Dave Taylor (British), Seattle, USA
I think some Americans intentionally mis-read negative comments about Bush as being anti-American and then whine about it. I love my country and am as pro-American as one can get, but I hate Bush and what he has done to my nation's reputation around the world. People are not anti-American, they are anti-Bush and that is NOT the same thing.
Randal S. Los Angeles, USA
Interesting that some people can portray them selves as other nationalities to avoid dealing with situations. Sometimes I wish I had the same luxury and was able to change colour.
Ahmed, London, UK
I honestly think its all about the tone and volume. Americans are always WAH WAH WAH on the train, in the restaurants. You can hear them a mile off. Its as irritating as when someone is talking on their mobile loudly in a train. It gives the impression they are better than everyone else. What I would advise Americans to do is to talk less, listen more, and talk more softly. Don't get me wrong, I love Americans, I never generalise, but I have met many arrogant ones and it is such a shame they give this impression.
Stevo, London, UK
I am very sorry to hear how Ms Cox has been treated. I think that kind of behaviour amounts to full on racism and should be treated as so. We have to understand that everybody is an individual and not to stereotype. I am a Asian Muslim in England, but it would be wrong to hold me responsible for the actions of a few. I most likely hate the London bombers more than a white English person, as those bombers have given my colour, motherland, and religion a bad name. I hope Ms Cox does not experience any more hassle.
Jahan Khan, Whitechapel
I can't tell you how sad this story made me. I have been an Anglophile all my life. My fondest dream is to spend time in the UK. I respect your people and culture so much. I am descended not only from England, but Scotland, Ireland and Wales as well! But I am to suffer abuse for it, because I was born in the US? I guess I have to go on loving the dream of England and not make the trip. By the way, I didn't vote for Bush. As a veteran, I would find it very hard to say I was from Canada. Chin up all you Americans in the UK. Maybe you are just running into the loony few? I hope so.
Jana Palumbo, Georgia, USA |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4881474.stm
Americans should be on red-alert when they are traveling/living in Europe, especially in the UK. I've experienced a great deal of hostility and anti-American sentiment from Brits. (especially) as I've traveled and lived in Asia. I use to want to go and visit England one day, but not anymore. There is no way in hell now or ever. I don't have the same opinion of Brits. as I use to. |
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n3ptne
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Location: Poh*A*ng City
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Americans should be on red-alert when they are traveling/living in Europe, especially in the UK. I've experienced a great deal of hostility and anti-American sentiment from Brits. (especially) as I've traveled and lived in Asia. I use to want to go and visit England one day, but not anymore. There is no way in hell now or ever. I don't have the same opinion of Brits. as I use to. |
Red Alert?
What are we talking about Baghdad?
Who hasn't felt some anti-Americanism from some ignorant slob or another? The thing is, it's just so easy to make them piss in their own cheerios.
Here's one that never fails to turn the tide of any conversation. Tell them that their country is your bitch. And when they scoff at the idea, tell them that when Daddy Bush snaps his fingers, their wig wearing parliament never fails to rise to the occasion, with or without popular support. Tell them they should try something novel, like an indepent existence, or to try excersising some soverignty and taking a position that is clearly against American policy... you know, to show the world that they still have some balls.
Never fails to amuse me how fast the conversation turns from how much they hate America, to backpeddling to explain how they aren't America's bitch, but just it's good friend because our fate's are intertwined.
And while they're doing that... make sure you remind them that they already had a few centuries to rape, pillage, and plunder the third world, and to a large extent are still doing so on American coat tails.
*beep* the Brits. |
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wo buxihuan hanguoren
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Location: Suyuskis
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| n3ptne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Americans should be on red-alert when they are traveling/living in Europe, especially in the UK. I've experienced a great deal of hostility and anti-American sentiment from Brits. (especially) as I've traveled and lived in Asia. I use to want to go and visit England one day, but not anymore. There is no way in hell now or ever. I don't have the same opinion of Brits. as I use to. |
Red Alert?
What are we talking about Baghdad?
Who hasn't felt some anti-Americanism from some ignorant slob or another? The thing is, it's just so easy to make them piss in their own cheerios.
Here's one that never fails to turn the tide of any conversation. Tell them that their country is your *beep*. And when they scoff at the idea, tell them that when Daddy Bush snaps his fingers, their wig wearing parliament never fails to rise to the occasion, with or without popular support. Tell them they should try something novel, like an indepent existence, or to try excersising some soverignty and taking a position that is clearly against American policy... you know, to show the world that they still have some balls.
Never fails to amuse me how fast the conversation turns from how much they hate America, to backpeddling to explain how they aren't America's *beep*, but just it's good friend because our fate's are intertwined.
And while they're doing that... make sure you remind them that they already had a few centuries to rape, pillage, and plunder the third world, and to a large extent are still doing so on American coat tails.
*beep* the Brits. |
Uh, you never read the comments, did you?
Just the first sentence of the article I presume. And your post reeks of hatred and superiority; Christ, talk about a stunning example as to why people across the board in general dislike American people; you are the message board personification of the ignorant, arrogant American. Cor blimey! |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| n3ptne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Americans should be on red-alert when they are traveling/living in Europe, especially in the UK. I've experienced a great deal of hostility and anti-American sentiment from Brits. (especially) as I've traveled and lived in Asia. I use to want to go and visit England one day, but not anymore. There is no way in hell now or ever. I don't have the same opinion of Brits. as I use to. |
Red Alert?
What are we talking about Baghdad?
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Hell, I'd sooner go to Baghdad than the UK any day. I grew up with Iraqis and rarely had a bad experience with them. They certainly don't harbor as much hatred towards Americans that's for sure. They've been really nice to me all of my life. You know it's really funny that many Iraqi people can appreciate the fact that America took out a dictator they absolutely hated and feared, but Brits (as well as others) can't. Do these anti-Americans wish Saddam was still in power to continue his dictatorship and who knows what else he would have done if allowed to continue. I knew many Iraqi people who had family members killed by his regime.
I didn't grow up with Brits but I've had mostly bad experiences with those people. My experiences with Brits have been mostly over these past two years as I've worked and traveled abroad in Asia. I'm definitely not bending over backwards to speak with them anymore.
Hey, do you mind taking out the *beep*s because I'd really like to see what you are talking about.
BTW, I read ALL of the 'balanced' comments in that article. |
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lastat06513
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Listen.......her story should be nothing new for the people who live or had lived in Korea for ANY length of time; at one time or another, we ALL will experience a kind of racism or discrimination while we are there.
You know....I live in a section of town that most people won't walk around after 6pm or once the sun goes down, the police even keep their presence limited because of the danger of coming here.
I am a white person living in a mostly black section of the city, do I get my dose of racism living here? you bet! I am reminded everyday of who I am and where I live.
So when I moved to Korea and witnessed and experienced alot of the racism that pisses people off, most of the time, I try to shrug it off....yeah, I'm an American, but I am an average American- I can't influence foreign policy, I don't determine what happens in places like Iraq or Israel......I know about the world and it fascinates me, but I am not interested in politics...its none of my business.
The only comment I can say about the article and the following comments; is that the next time someone comes up to you and tells you all the bad things America does in the world, just say, "yeah? really?....so?"
See how they react...  |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Read the comments - her single experience is the exceptionally exceptional exception.
.
.
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.
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.
.
.
But if you choose not to visit UK as a result of reading that woman's exceptional experience, then that's fine too. It's a bit like pouring French wine down the drains: the French had a quiet chuckle at that, I am sure! |
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| n3ptne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Americans should be on red-alert when they are traveling/living in Europe, especially in the UK. I've experienced a great deal of hostility and anti-American sentiment from Brits. (especially) as I've traveled and lived in Asia. I use to want to go and visit England one day, but not anymore. There is no way in hell now or ever. I don't have the same opinion of Brits. as I use to. |
Red Alert?
What are we talking about Baghdad?
Who hasn't felt some anti-Americanism from some ignorant slob or another? The thing is, it's just so easy to make them piss in their own cheerios.
Here's one that never fails to turn the tide of any conversation. Tell them that their country is your *beep*. And when they scoff at the idea, tell them that when Daddy Bush snaps his fingers, their wig wearing parliament never fails to rise to the occasion, with or without popular support. Tell them they should try something novel, like an indepent existence, or to try excersising some soverignty and taking a position that is clearly against American policy... you know, to show the world that they still have some balls.
Never fails to amuse me how fast the conversation turns from how much they hate America, to backpeddling to explain how they aren't America's *beep*, but just it's good friend because our fate's are intertwined.
And while they're doing that... make sure you remind them that they already had a few centuries to rape, pillage, and plunder the third world, and to a large extent are still doing so on American coat tails.
*beep* the Brits. |
Ha ha. So is that a CHOICE you're making when you decide to think 'Beep the Brits...?'
(Hey man, I'm not stalking your posts, I was just browsing the thread...) |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Read the comments - her single experience is the exceptionally exceptional exception. ! |
Did you read all of the comments? It doesn't sound like it. Let me remind you of these:
| Quote: |
Anti-American sentiment clearly runs high in the UK, Until Ms Cox can reconcile this conflict perhaps it would be best if she continues to "keep her voice down".
Gavin Scott, Edinburgh, UK
I would agree that in general Americans are a loathsome, naive, petulant bunch
Craig Eastman, Liverpool, UK
I've been in a few tense situations since moving to the UK,
Rose Judson, Birmingham, UK
It is little wonder that there is such a dislike and misunderstanding of Americans and American foreign policy when you consider the thread of anti-Americanism that runs through almost every related story that the BBC presents. Who do you think you are?
Eddie Chalmers, Dundee, UK
I am married to a British national and did a posting with the Canadian High Commission in London from 2000-2004. I suffered verbal abuse on a few occasions when people thought I was American. It got to the point where my husband asked that we not talk on the Tube into London and I wore a Canadian Maple Leaf lapel pin.
Pam Saunders, Singapore
Ms Cox is perhaps a tad naive to take the abuse she receives so personally. Americans are easy targets right now and thanks, not in small part, to the British press it's easy for people to target one US national for the others' actions. But it's not just Americans who get this, prejudice is rampant in this country. For example, I live in Wales and I've seen English people here being beaten up for being English.
Andy, Cardiff, UK |
There's no doubt in my mind that anti-American hostility runs high in the UK. Why would I want to go to a country and spend my money there when the people feel this way towards me? I don't need it really. It's interesting that these Brits on here accuse Americans of being arrogant when their arrogance and bigotry is full on. They have been thee most arrogant, snobby people I have ever met in my life, bar none.
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| But if you choose not to visit UK as a result of reading that woman's exceptional experience, then that's fine too. It's a bit like pouring French wine down the drains: the French had a quiet chuckle at that, I am sure |
My decision not to visit the UK has nothing to do with this story. It has to do with my personal experiences. I don't understand your analogy of pouring French wine down the drains. I haven't had bad experiences in my dealings with French people. Mostly, my experiences with French people has been quite good actually. |
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n3ptne
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Location: Poh*A*ng City
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Hell, I'd sooner go to Baghdad than the UK any day. I grew up with Iraqis and rarely had a bad experience with them. |
I agree with you 100%. I grew up in the largest arabic settlement outside of the Middle East in the entire world (Detroit)... and I can honestly say I've never had a single bad experience with them, and that I'd trust them over a limey any single day of the week... or an American for that matter. |
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superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Anti-Americanism I can handle, I'm not ashamed of my nationality even if the policies sometimes go in ways I don't particularly like (Rwanda anyone?) But the worst part are those cowards that claim they are Canadian in order to escape the responsibility of being American. Yes, that's right responsibility. If all of the "cool" Americans pretend to be Canadian that simply reinforces the stereotype of the "arrogant, ignorant" American. It's time for Americans to stand up and be counted. Stop hiding behind the maple leaf. If enough "cool" Americans start aknowledging their nationality, then perhaps the world will begin to realize that our country is not simply about our current government. I hear too many times, "I love Americans but I hate the government." But, with so many spineless cowards running around claiming to be Canadian, eventually the tide will turn where people will simply say, "I hate America AND Americans."
It's ironic that the Brits are giving the US crap about Iraq and Bush, when Blair has been a major, major part of Iraq policy since the UN resolution first past. I'm tired of hearing the constant scapegoating of Bush and America as an alternative to looking at the world conditions that led to Iraq in the first place. The Neville Chamberlin-ism of Europe during the brutal reign of Saddam and during the Iran-Iraq war is what led to the current situation. Of course, America shares the blame, but America alone is not the only culprit. It was a UN vote by the Security Council that led to war. Countries could have voted "no." And no, it wasn't CIA misinformation that led to the Security Council vote, it was information from a variety of sources, most notably MI6.
The big irony, is that the systemic problems in the Middle East have roots with Britain's colonial action in the region during the early 20th century. The Balfour Declaration is one of the major causes for the Palestinian crisis, as it declared British support for the partitioning of Palestine. The modern state of Iraq was carved out of the Ottoman Empire by the French and British as agreed in the Sykes-Picot Agreement. On 11 November 1920 it became a League of Nations mandate under British control with the name "State of Iraq".
The British and the French have their hands just as dirty as the Americans when it comes to the current situation.
The British might have the biggest problem with Americans simply because the Americans are reminding the Brits of their own history.
I love the UK and France, I hope to move back to Paris very soon, my problems are with the Americans that pretend to be something else. Britain, France and the United States have a strong friendship that has endured through all sorts of struggles, but now the ball is in the Americans court. It's time for us to regain our courage and reason, it's time for us to stop apologizing for every irritant. It's time for Americans to take responsibility and have the courage to forge ahead. It's time for Americans to start building bridges instead of perpetuating fences. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| lastat06513 wrote: |
Listen.......her story should be nothing new for the people who live or had lived in Korea for ANY length of time; at one time or another, we ALL will experience a kind of racism or discrimination while we are there.
You know....I live in a section of town that most people won't walk around after 6pm or once the sun goes down, the police even keep their presence limited because of the danger of coming here.
I am a white person living in a mostly black section of the city, do I get my dose of racism living here? you bet! I am reminded everyday of who I am and where I live.
So when I moved to Korea and witnessed and experienced alot of the racism that pisses people off, most of the time, I try to shrug it off....yeah, I'm an American, but I am an average American- I can't influence foreign policy, I don't determine what happens in places like Iraq or Israel......I know about the world and it fascinates me, but I am not interested in politics...its none of my business.
The only comment I can say about the article and the following comments; is that the next time someone comes up to you and tells you all the bad things America does in the world, just say, "yeah? really?....so?"
See how they react... |
What he (or she) said.
People are getting a bit of discrimination by not being part of the in crowd. So what?
If the threat of someone saying something mean to you is enough to not make you travel, then please don't. You can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. That's what that lady in the story did. Can't blame here but I sure as hell don't have to feel sorry for her...
I'm American. Not Canadian. Not African. I'm American. I see nothing wrong with that. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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I'm proud to be an American. Anyone that hates on me because I'm an American can f off. The US does a lot of good things around the world. Americans, as a people, are extremely generous and kind. We hold no grudges and we open are arms to all friends.
God bless America. |
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sojourner1
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:56 am Post subject: |
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This is so funny. For years, when in foriegn countries, I always say I'm from Canada and they always go, yea, we love Canada, Canada is beautiful and peaceful. I am like, yes I love it too. It's a huge natural wilderness place where you have plenty of personal space and fresh air.
On the street in Korea today, I still tell everyone I am Canadian as to stay neutral and keep it simple and stupid, becuase I do not like the facts associated with being American. It's not that I am not proud to be American, I just need people to view me neutrally without preconcieved notions and all the politics and international relations stuff that America is known for. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:54 am Post subject: |
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Well, I'm British and I found this disturbing at first, but on reflection, isn't it rather obvious that Ms Cox is an absolutely stupid tw*t? Let's take a look....
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However she adds: "Bush is our leader and I respect that. It's a bit like the way you feel about your father. You don't always agree with him, but you would defend him."
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My god. You should be put down, woman.
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"I appreciate that British people often don't understand why I have so much pride, they think it's brainwashing.
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Well.....how is this "so much pride" manifesting itself?
Sounds fishy. I've visited the US and have an overwhelmingly positive view of it, but I've seen these people with "so much pride". Their existence is definitely evidence that there cannot be an omnipotent, benevolent god, so it works both ways, darling, trust me.
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"But some people just fly off the handle without even talking to me - it's as if they had been waiting to run into an American all day to let their feelings out," she says.
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Many people who responded to the article appear to disagree. What kind of people are you hanging around with? Sitting around waiting for an American to come along to "let their feelings out" isn't a cultural trait I observed in 26 years in the UK. I was under the impression we were allies and exchanged billions in mutual tourism and contributions to popular culture? Maybe people have brought up some political issue and you've immediately leaped on the emotive and the defensive - something perhaps evidenced by your admission that you'd defend the worst President in US history like a father! Mad.
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| "When I said yes he said: 'I just want you to know that I think you are the poorest people I have ever met in my life' - meaning we were low-life. |
I didn't realize "the poorest people" equated to "low life". Maybe this chap - even though it's a stupid comment - was trying to articulate some point about poverty?
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The man started shouting obscenities at her group. The row developed into a brawl and Ms Cox suffered a black eye as she tried to pull two people apart.
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Isolated incident? Psycho?
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"After that I cried for two days, then booked a flight back to the States. I felt so hated, I needed to be with people who loved me."
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How old are you? Toughen up a bit and get over it.
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| She was subjected to verbal abuse in the first year or so in Britain, but things calmed down particularly when she had her daughter and stopped going out to pubs so much. |
God, what kind of holes were you going into?
What about the thousands of Americans in West London pubs as we speak? London and elsewhere but especially London is full of Americans and the suggestion that this is commonplace treatment is actually insulting.
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| But she adds that she has a close group of girlfriends from the US, many of whom say they have not had similar experiences. |
More stable people, I dare say.
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| She says she is still cautious when she's out and about: "If people ask where I'm from I say 'the States, but the part near Canada'." |
Simply not serious. Was this published on April Fool's Day, by any chance?
Anyway...American readers who are concerned about this definitely should not be, but that's up to you. Did those of you who posted vitriolic replies read the comments that followed the article? They, even the negative ones, are much more representative than the observations of a single individual who's obviously a complete moron and a very questionable piece of journalism I'm surprised to see on the BBC. |
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superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| sojourner1 wrote: |
| On the street in Korea today, I still tell everyone I am Canadian as to stay neutral and keep it simple and stupid, becuase I do not like the facts associated with being American. It's not that I am not proud to be American, I just need people to view me neutrally without preconcieved notions and all the politics and international relations stuff that America is known for. |
You AREN'T proud of being an American. You are a coward. Perhaps you could tell people that you ARE an American and then just refuse to talk about politics. People ask me all the time if I'm an American (mostly Koreans) and they don't start asking me about George Bush any more than I start asking them about President "No" (Roh.)
Besides, aren't all Canadians a bunch of pot-smoking hippies that play hockey? |
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