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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: Hang In There, America ... |
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This is from that bastion of radical left-wing fanatical anarchists, The McClatchy Newspaper Group :
Hang in there, America
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The war that was never ours to win by military means - the only button this president who never learned war ever learned how to push - is lost. Bush and Cheney and the rest of their cronies and co-conspirators are toast.
The question is: How did such ordinary-looking men - seemingly unable to carry out even the smallest non-political tasks of governing - succeed in doing such extraordinary and lasting damage to our country, our military and our body politic in so few years? |
I keep hoping I'll wake up in a couple of years and feel like it was all just a bad dream. Unfortunately, I know better. The damage will persist for decades. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| An excellent article. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Well there's just one little problem with that, Bobster. The Democrats have now shown themselves to be spineless opportunists, happy to cave in to Dubya and betray the voters that elected them in record time.
What makes you think that in 600 days, anything will be any different? Because the Democrats will have a majority in Congress? What voter in their right mind would trust the Democrats again after what they just did?
I sympathize with your viewpoint, but from the outside looking in, it looks like the average American voter has nobody they can turn to or trust anymore. And as a result, a very deep cynicism and complete disengagement from the whole political system by average Americans is a very serious risk now.
I can't help but think that people will look back on this decade as the worst in US history.  |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Most Americans support the war on terror. The reason for the Iraq war is cause the Bathists , the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists wouldn't give up their war.
They don't have a right to their war. |
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Treefarmer
Joined: 29 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:03 am Post subject: |
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This does hit me sometimes (i'm english btw) that when george bush has to leave next year, there really couldn't be anyone worse to take his place. I don't think he is an evil man or anything like that, but his government has really run america into the ground, not even just america, the middle east as well, they turned iran into a superpower by taking out saddam and the taliban, encouraged israel to pursue it's worst policies, gave north korea a leg to stand on by fucking up the disarmament talks so much, wrecked the kyoto treaty
loads more shit i can't think of, and i know nothing about the domestic situation, but it doesn't seem too rosy
i agree that the democrats and the republicans are not that different, but i am hoping against hope that at least the next leader is not so shockingly incompetent, even someone like rumsfeld or wolfowitz wouldn't have made such a pigs ear of the presidency, despite being completely cynical bastards in my view |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| The reason for the Iraq war is cause the Bathists , the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists wouldn't give up their war. |
You know, you remind me of a Scientologist sometimes. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| The reason for the Iraq war is cause the Bathists , the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists wouldn't give up their war. |
You know, you remind me of a Scientologist sometimes. |
You mean they Bathists , the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists gave up their war?
Ok does Thomas Friedman of the NY Times also remind you of Scientologist?
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Because We Could
Thomas L. Friedman
New York Times Op-Ed Columnist
Wednesday, June 4, 2003 Posted: 7:02 AM EDT (1102 GMT)
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The failure of the Bush team to produce any weapons of mass destruction (W.M.D.'s) in Iraq is becoming a big, big story. But is it the real story we should be concerned with? No. It was the wrong issue before the war, and it's the wrong issue now.
Why? Because there were actually four reasons for this war: the real reason, the right reason, the moral reason and the stated reason.
The "real reason" for this war, which was never stated, was that after 9/11 America needed to hit someone in the Arab-Muslim world. Afghanistan wasn't enough because a terrorism bubble had built up over there � a bubble that posed a real threat to the open societies of the West and needed to be punctured. This terrorism bubble said that plowing airplanes into the World Trade Center was O.K., having Muslim preachers say it was O.K. was O.K., having state-run newspapers call people who did such things "martyrs" was O.K. and allowing Muslim charities to raise money for such "martyrs" was O.K. Not only was all this seen as O.K., there was a feeling among radical Muslims that suicide bombing would level the balance of power between the Arab world and the West, because we had gone soft and their activists were ready to die.
The only way to puncture that bubble was for American soldiers, men and women, to go into the heart of the Arab-Muslim world, house to house, and make clear that we are ready to kill, and to die, to prevent our open society from being undermined by this terrorism bubble. Smashing Saudi Arabia or Syria would have been fine. But we hit Saddam for one simple reason: because we could, and because he deserved it and because he was right in the heart of that world. And don't believe the nonsense that this had no effect. Every neighboring government � and 98 percent of terrorism is about what governments let happen � got the message. If you talk to U.S. soldiers in Iraq they will tell you this is what the war was about. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Well there's just one little problem with that, Bobster. The Democrats have now shown themselves to be spineless opportunists, happy to cave in to Dubya and betray the voters that elected them in record time. |
I will confess in public that what you say is at least one reason I am still awake at this hour of the morning ... yes, there are a few reasons to worry.
Some other guy:
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| Most Americans support the war on terror. |
Think you haven't seen the latest polls, or perhaps you are tweaking them to get your jollies.
Nobody likes Bush. Everybody wants us out of Iraq. Iraq never had a thing to do with terrorism against America. These are simple truths that everyone knows right now.
You were wrong, and a lot of people died for no damn good reason. Got a news flash : Tomorrow, a few more will die, likely enough. Also, for no damn good reason.
You won't like it, and neither will I. Know what? They will still be dead. And here's an important to remember about death : it just goes on and on.
This thing is totally whack. We can end it. End it now.
Right now. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Most Americans support the war on terror
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hink you haven't seen the latest polls, or perhaps you are tweaking them to get your jollies. |
Really can you show single poll where is says that Americans want the war on terror to end?
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Nobody likes Bush. Everybody wants us out of Iraq. Iraq never had a thing to do with terrorism against America. These are simple truths that everyone knows right now. |
Not so.
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that Iraq under Saddam had never attacked or killed or even threatened (his words) any American. I never quite know whether Moore is as ignorant as he looks, or even if that would be humanly possible. Baghdad was for years the official, undisguised home address of Abu Nidal, then the most-wanted gangster in the world, who had been sentenced to death even by the PLO and had blown up airports in Vienna* and Rome. Baghdad was the safe house for the man whose "operation" murdered Leon Klinghoffer. Saddam boasted publicly of his financial sponsorship of suicide bombers in Israel. (Quite a few Americans of all denominations walk the streets of Jerusalem.) In 1991, a large number of Western hostages were taken by the hideous Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and held in terrible conditions for a long time. After that same invasion was repelled�Saddam having killed quite a few Americans and Egyptians and Syrians and Brits in the meantime and having threatened to kill many more�the Iraqi secret police were caught trying to murder former President Bush during his visit to Kuwait. Never mind whether his son should take that personally. (Though why should he not?) Should you and I not resent any foreign dictatorship that attempts to kill one of our retired chief executives? (President Clinton certainly took it that way: He ordered the destruction by cruise missiles of the Baathist "security" headquarters.) Iraqi forces fired, every day, for 10 years, on the aircraft that patrolled the no-fly zones and staved off further genocide in the north and south of the country. In 1993, a certain Mr. Yasin helped mix the chemicals for the bomb at the World Trade Center and then skipped to Iraq, where he remained a guest of the state until the overthrow of Saddam. In 2001, Saddam's regime was the only one in the region that openly celebrated the attacks on New York and Washington and described them as just the beginning of a larger revenge. Its official media regularly spewed out a stream of anti-Semitic incitement. I think one might describe that as "threatening," even if one was narrow enough to think that anti-Semitism only menaces Jews. And it was after, and not before, the 9/11 attacks that Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi moved from Afghanistan to Baghdad and began to plan his now very open and lethal design for a holy and ethnic civil war. On Dec. 1, 2003, the New York Times reported�and the David Kay report had established�that Saddam had been secretly negotiating with the "Dear Leader" Kim Jong-il in a series of secret meetings in Syria, as late as the spring of 2003, to buy a North Korean missile system, and missile-production system, right off the shelf. (This attempt was not uncovered until after the fall of Baghdad, the coalition's presence having meanwhile put an end to the negotiations.) |
http://www.slate.com/id/2102723/
Yes Saddam's Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism. 
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You were wrong, and a lot of people died for no damn good reason. Got a news flash : Tomorrow, a few more will die, likely enough. Also, for no damn good reason. |
Wrong about what?
The US actions in Iraq saved lives too.
Saddam Hussein killed 300,000 Iraqis this doesn't included anyone else .
Remember that his sons were coming up next.
Since the US couldn't contain Saddam at some point he would have been free. Free he would have killed off the Kurds and others once and for all.
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You won't like it, and neither will I. Know what? They will still be dead. And here's an important to remember about death : it just goes on and on.
This thing is totally whack. We can end it. End it now |
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The war ought to end just as soon as the Bathists , the Khomeni supporters and the Al Qaedists give up their war .
Going back to the 1990's just means that the next attack on the US will be planned.
War to steal Iraqs oil would be wrong. War to force the Bathists , the Khomeni supporters and the Al Qaedists give up their war isn't.
They have a choice - they can quit if they don't want to quit than just about anything and everything the US does to force them to is okay. Cause they don't have a right to their war. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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When losing badly in one thread just start another and hope for different results.
Your support for terrorism will underwhelm us.
cbc |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Fact - the majority of Americans want US troops withdrawn from Iraq. Neo-Cons are now in the minority on that issue. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Alias wrote: |
| Fact - the majority of Americans want US troops withdrawn from Iraq. |
Word. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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And the latest from the Bush man:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/31/bush-wild-eyed/
Report: In Meeting, �Wild-Eyed� Bush Thumped Chest While Repeating �I Am The President!�
Georgie Anne Geyer writes today in the Dallas Morning News about President Bush�s strange behavior during a recent meeting with �[f]riends of his from Texas.�
But by all reports, President Bush is more convinced than ever of his righteousness.
Friends of his from Texas were shocked recently to find him nearly wild-eyed, thumping himself on the chest three times while he repeated �I am the president!� He also made it clear he was setting Iraq up so his successor could not get out of �our country�s destiny.� |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| He also made it clear he was setting Iraq up so his successor could not get out of �our country�s destiny.� |
WTF? He is acting more and more like a man with a severe mental disorder. Thumping his chest? Is he 6?
It shouldn't have to be said, but does, that this "destiny" crap is directly related to his religious beliefs.
He is "setting Iraq up" so that the next (Democrat) president can't get out.. Gawddamn. What a crazy mother *beep* er. Nothing can change his mind.
Maybe EFL is right.. Impeach the bas.tard. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Alias wrote: |
| Fact - the majority of Americans want US troops withdrawn from Iraq. Neo-Cons are now in the minority on that issue. |
Most Americans support the war on terror.
Iraq is a battle on the war on terror.
Get rid the Bathists, the Khomenists and the Al Qaedists then no more terror. |
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