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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:36 pm Post subject: I wanna be an Illegal Alien |
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Dear Elected Official,
As a native Coloradoan and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien and they referred me to you.
My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stem from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill's provisions is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for three of the last five years. I know a good deal when I see one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone figures it out.
Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005.
Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost $10,000 a year. Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as "in-state" tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son.
Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me given that I still have college age children driving my car.
If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.
Your Loyal Constituent,
(and hopefully an illegal one)
cbc |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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You'd find it difficult to find an illegal alien in America who is not working below minimum wage. You have to make a bit more in order to pay even a little bit of taxes.
The argument that illegals are a drain on the economy is specious, at best, and in most cases completely fallacious. They are doing work Americans don't want to do, or are unable - I, for instance, could never pick enough strawberries in a day to buy dinner for myself and those I love at the end of it.
Always wondered why the fanatical worship of free trade of material objects across borders, and never a word about the free flow of labor, of human beings who want to do an honest day's work and feed their families?
Kinda seems to say that a carburator made in a machilladora (sp?) has more worth to the world than women, old people and hungry kids ...
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| You'd find it difficult to find an illegal alien in America who is not working below minimum wage. |
Which is why raising the minimum wage creates jobs for more illegal aliens. Their sole comparative advantage is that they work for less than Black Americans (their direct competition for employment).
I think the plan to make them legal is fundamentally good, with some flaws.
Moving towards a system of point-based immigration and away from family based is excellent for the competitiveness of the country (watch the brain-drain from Canada become a brain-flush). I don't know how many will be able to afford a 5k fine, though.
Also, if there isn't a crackdown on employers who hire illegals, the whole project is pointless. If you make the 12million legal and apply to their labour minimum wage laws, you will just have more illegals from Mexico arrive who are willing to work for less than minimum wage and thus are more competitive than their now legal countrymen. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| You'd find it difficult to find an illegal alien in America who is not working below minimum wage. |
Which is why raising the minimum wage creates jobs for more illegal aliens. Their sole comparative advantage is that they work for less than Black Americans (their direct competition for employment).
I think the plan to make them legal is fundamentally good, with some flaws.
Moving towards a system of point-based immigration and away from family based is excellent for the competitiveness of the country (watch the brain-drain from Canada become a brain-flush). I don't know how many will be able to afford a 5k fine, though.
Also, if there isn't a crackdown on employers who hire illegals, the whole project is pointless. If you make the 12million legal and apply to their labour minimum wage laws, you will just have more illegals from Mexico arrive who are willing to work for less than minimum wage and thus are more competitive than their now legal countrymen. |
And don't forget that they are raising the fees for permanent residency and for citizenship. If I remember correctly, they tripled the fees for citizenship. So the government is effectively squeezing out lower income migrants...
Also if you don't let families come, that means the money will be leaving the country at even great rates...not that it's a bad thing but it's something to think about. Western Union is going to be the stock to buy if I were you guys.... |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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You kill illegal immigration, you kill domestic companies who will opt to outsource to other countries (China and maquiladoras). Those pesky illegal Mexicans, Chinese and others will not spend any of their money in the U.S. They won't get taxed. They won't pay rent, or buy at K-Mart or McDonald's near the fields they work at, nor will they get income tax deductions from their paychecks in which they cannot file for a tax return. As a result, they cannot stimulate the local economy they already do (much like we do for Korea in Itaewon).
What a lot of Americans are afraid of is not illegal immigration itself. They are afraid of a "reverse Texas-style cultural upheaval." |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| merkurix wrote: |
You kill illegal immigration, you kill domestic companies who will opt to outsource to other countries (China and maquiladoras). Those pesky illegal Mexicans, Chinese and others will not spend any of their money in the U.S. They won't get taxed. They won't pay rent, or buy at K-Mart or McDonald's near the fields they work at, nor will they get income tax deductions from their paychecks in which they cannot file for a tax return. As a result, they cannot stimulate the local economy they already do (much like we do in Korea for Itaewon).
What a lot of Americans are afraid of is not illegal immigration itself. They are afraid of a "reverse Texas-style cultural upheaval." |
I disagree with the part I put in bold. The point isn't to stop (as I understand the legislation) immigration, but to make it legal. There are some very questionable characters who are crossing into America from Mexico. The rule of law must be upheld. It must. Immigration must be made legal.
I am in the process of applying to move, legally, to the USA. The process is so disgustingly bureaucratic and inefficient that I often think that it isn't worth it. If I, with two university degrees and perfect English ability can't easily move there to work and add to the economy, how the hell is that that some dude from the backwards parts of Mexico can make his way through all the paperwork.
The process needs to be made simple. Very, very simple. Like Singapore. My work visa was ready 3 weeks after my job offer here. In that time I had a TB and HIV tests, a background check and a very short interview. Singapore also has a very successful guestworker program.
About the social upheaval. That is just one more reason why they need to be made legal and brought in from the shadows. |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| You'd find it difficult to find an illegal alien in America who is not working below minimum wage. You have to make a bit more in order to pay even a little bit of taxes. : |
Hate to disagree with ya Bobster but I worked closely with alot of employeers who use illegals. I've had long discussions about it with them and they've told me point blank told me that alot of their guys were making $10-20/hour. They told me that the illegals just work "harder" (sun up to sun down) and the employer doesn't have to pay disability if the worker gets hurt. They're slaves. It's the new form of slavery b/c if Heimy doesn't work 14 hours a day, the employeer just gets a new illegal. They're lined up around the block for a $10/hour job. This was in N.C mind you and not California. So these guys would most definitely be paying taxes if they were legal.
| The Bobster wrote: |
| The argument that illegals are a drain on the economy is specious, at best, and in most cases completely fallacious. They are doing work Americans don't want to do, or are unable - I, for instance, could never pick enough strawberries in a day to buy dinner for myself and those I love at the end of it. : |
Of course they are a drain on the economy and it's a complete falsehood that these people are "Just doing jobs American's won't do." These jobs got done before they were in America and they'll get done after. No the truth of the matter is that American's won't do it for that price. End of story. If these employers were willing to pay at least mininum wage for workers and maybe some insurance, some Americans would do the job. Not all granted, but some. Those crops would be planted and harvested and that's what the farmers need right? Those dishes need to be washed. That's what the restaurants need right? Hey, here's an idea. What about developing or buying a machine to pick those strawberries or wash those dishes? OH no, it's cheaper to hire an illegal for $3/hour than buy a machine. End of story.
As for the drain on the economy part. Let me explain. Yes, in the areas where the illegals settle there is a flourishing service economy devoted to them by them. They need milk and bread for their 3-5 children at home and a new Chevy with their full name and a colorful picture of the Virgin Mary emblazzened across the truck's gate (Hispanic illegals). They need 1 3 bedroom house for themselves and their illegal mothers and fathers and cousins along with their own brood. They also need Western Union to send $ home so that more of their family can hire smugglers to come over whether by donkey or raft. I get that fact, and yes they do help in that way. Big spenders they are  What I object to is them using our hospitals and public facilities and paying almost nothing to do so. In N.C I used to enter the local health department daily for my job and all I heard was Spanish. The illegals are mostly hispanic in N.C.
A vast majority of the people who use the local Health Department are Spanish speaking and anyone who's ever used the Health Department knows the price is about a quarter of what the rest of us would pay at a doctor's office. I'd be willing to bet that over 75% of them are illegals. I would go into the public school system and I see pictures on the walls written in Spanish. Wait? Shouldn't that be written in English? This is after all an English speaking American school right? Nope, " We want to learn Spanish so that we (Americans) can become more "multi-cultural" This load of crap I was told by one of the teachers. I about lost my lunch. The illegals are sending their children to our publicly funded schools and not paying for it. They're also not paying SS. Now I ask you, is this right? Is this fair? I, my parents, my grandparents, and my great grandparents have been paying for those schools and those Health Departments. Should now they be used for free by criminals and their progeny? Should they?!?
I personally am willing to pay more, much more, for food and services if it means that my children can live a better country because we've rid ourselves of the illegal leaches literally sucking the lifeblood from us. And make no mistake they are leaches on our economy. They contribute to the economy in their own way granted, but we'd be better off in the long run without them. I compare the illegals to heroin. You're much better off without it.
Last edited by Yo!Chingo on Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| merkurix wrote: |
You kill illegal immigration, you kill domestic companies who will opt to outsource to other countries (China and maquiladoras). Those pesky illegal Mexicans, Chinese and others will not spend any of their money in the U.S. They won't get taxed. They won't pay rent, or buy at K-Mart or McDonald's near the fields they work at, nor will they get income tax deductions from their paychecks in which they cannot file for a tax return. As a result, they cannot stimulate the local economy they already do (much like we do in Korea for Itaewon).
What a lot of Americans are afraid of is not illegal immigration itself. They are afraid of a "reverse Texas-style cultural upheaval." |
I disagree with the part I put in bold. The point isn't to stop (as I understand the legislation) immigration, but to make it legal. |
I most certainly could have put that in better words. Strike the part that says "illegal." I agree that they should make it easier for people to come here. Best of luck with your applications to the U.S. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Yo!Chingo wrote: |
I've had long discussions about it with them and they've told me point blank told me that alot of their guys were making $10-20/hour. (...)They're lined up around the block for a $10/hour job. (...)
OH no, it's cheaper to hire an illegal for $3/hour than buy a machine. End of story. |
Um sort of noticed that your numbers changed massively in the course of two paragraphs. Lot more I could say about your post, maybe tomorrow, but I'm really bugged about how the numbers go down from $20 to $3 in right about 50 words ...
Don't get so het up about Spanish, by the way. I only know a bit, but it's a beautiful language with beautiful music, beautiful poetry, beautiful women some pretty good movies - hey, we could do worse : Carlos Santana, Pedro Almodovar, Pablo Neruda, Salma Hayek (don't get me started about Salma Heyek), Penelope Cruz ... oh, and did I mention Salma Hayek?
Sorry, looks like I'm getting trivial (Salma Hayek is important, dammit!) but it was that whole thing about your numbers getting smaller when it was convenient for you to make them smaller. Understand?
Last edited by The Bobster on Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Yo!Chingo wrote: |
I've had long discussions about it with them and they've told me point blank told me that alot of their guys were making $10-20/hour. (...)They're lined up around the block for a $10/hour job. (...)
OH no, it's cheaper to hire an illegal for $3/hour than buy a machine. End of story. |
Um sort of noticed that your numbers changed massively in the course of two paragraphs. Lot more I could say about your post, maybe tomorrow, but I'm really bugged about how the numbers go down from $20 to $3 in right about 50 words ...
Don't get so het up about Spanish, by the way. I only know a bit, but it's a beautiful language with beautiful music, beautiful poetry, beautiful women some pretty good movies - hey, we could do worse : Carlos Santana, Pedro Almodovar, Pablo Neruda, Salma Hayek (don't get me started about Salma Heyek), Penelope Cruz ... oh, and did I mention Salma Hayek?
Sorry, looks like I'm getting trivial (Salma Hayek is important, dammit!) but it was that whole thing about your numbers getting smallier when it was convenient for you to make them smaller. Understand? |
The higher salaries are in construction when there are alot of injuries. Employers don't mind paying almost what they would for a legal if they don't have the threat of paying short term disability if there's an injury or having people work less than 14 hour workdays. The $3/hour jobs are for the service industry like restaurants where injuries really aren't an issue. Btw the $3/hour is a guess. I'm thinking they're probably making a little below minimum wage, but since I've never had a minimum wage job... Anyway, many of these jobs could easily replaced with machines.
What I'm trying to say is that these employers in the construction industry don't mind paying for slave labor who will generally keep their mouths shut about work conditions, suffer injuries in silence, and work their lives away for less than a legal citizen or resident. |
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Nicco61
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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I would hire a Mexican. Filipino or any Asian immigrant because they work hard and care about their job. Most of my employees today are a bunch lazy ass people.
Last edited by Nicco61 on Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Nicco61 wrote: |
| Whether illegal or not I would hire a Mexican. Filipino or any Asian immigrant because they work hard and care about their job. Most of my employees today are a bunch lazy ass people. |
If the a Mexican, Filipino, or other asian was legal, could do the job to my satisfaction, and could beat the price of someone else, sure I'd hire one. But I'd never hire someone b/c of the widespread and many times false assumption that one race is harder working than another. That's just plain stupid. |
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Nicco61
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I have 87 employees in my present position and 125 in my previous post and its not a racial thing but in my experience Americans are getting lazier and lazier.
ie. Its 0515 and 16 year old "Johnny" should have been here at 0500 so I call his house. His mother answered the phone and I explained who I was and what the situation was. Her response. "Johnny doesn't do mornings well." My response. "Johnny doesn't have to worry about getting up early anymore."
WTF are parents trying to teach their kids???
I have people that work for me and basically just come in for the least amount hours and still pay their bills. Now I realize that I work in a high turnover industry but if I could find 82 Mexicans, Filipnos, Asians to make up for the 82 blacks, whites etc. that make up the bulk of my workforce I'd fire 'em all in a heartbeat, in a blink of an eye, at the drop of a hat etc.
I have no issues with immigrants and will hire them all day long as long as they are legal. |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Nicco61 wrote: |
I have 87 employees in my present position and 125 in my previous post and its not a racial thing but in my experience Americans are getting lazier and lazier.
ie. Its 0515 and 16 year old "Johnny" should have been here at 0500 so I call his house. His mother answered the phone and I explained who I was and what the situation was. Her response. "Johnny doesn't do mornings well." My response. "Johnny doesn't have to worry about getting up early anymore."
WTF are parents trying to teach their kids???
I have people that work for me and basically just come in for the least amount hours and still pay their bills. Now I realize that I work in a high turnover industry but if I could find 82 Mexicans, Filipnos, Asians to make up for the 82 blacks, whites etc. that make up the bulk of my workforce I'd fire 'em all in a heartbeat, in a blink of an eye, at the drop of a hat etc.
I have no issues with immigrants and will hire them all day long as long as they are legal. |
Just out of curiosity, are the bulk of those you hire 16 year olds to whom you pay minimum wage? If the answer is "yes" then of course they're gonna be irresponsible. That's called adolescence.
As far as hiring legal immigrants, no qualms here. If they're legal they're ok. Illegal, now that's a different story. |
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charlieDD
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
I don't know how many will be able to afford a 5k fine, though.
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As was pointed out by a speaker on a CNN roundtable, many of the illegal immigrants pay as much or more to the smugglers who get them into the country. |
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