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| Science or Faith? |
| Science |
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75% |
[ 25 ] |
| Faith |
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24% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 33 |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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 Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Science requires faith that the external world actually is as it appears to us. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think it does. We can accept that we don't know for sure, but still go about seeking out the best way possible to know as much as possible. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: |
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The chances of our particular universe coming into being out of the big bang, as against the number of possible universes, is one chance in 10 to the power of 123 (Lee Smolin). That number has more digits than there are protons in the universe. If the settings had been infinitessimally different, there would be no life as we know it, not to mention the inexplicable phenomenon of human consciousness.
Most of the modern day scientific priesthood would have me accept, on faith, that this astronomically improbable event happened as an accident of pure randomness.
To have that kind of faith not only requires one to suspend disbelief, it requires one to take their disbelief out the back and shoot it in the head. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:27 am Post subject: |
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You don't provide an option for that sizeable portion of the population who are able to reconcile science and religious faith. As did Einstein.
For the record, I opted for science on your imperfect poll. I don't have 'faith' though I wish I did. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
The chances of our particular universe coming into being out of the big bang, as against the number of possible universes, is one chance in 10 to the power of 123 (Lee Smolin). That number has more digits than there are protons in the universe. If the settings had been infinitessimally different, there would be no life as we know it, not to mention the inexplicable phenomenon of human consciousness.
Most of the modern day scientific priesthood would have me accept, on faith, that this astronomically improbable event happened as an accident of pure randomness.
To have that kind of faith not only requires one to suspend disbelief, it requires one to take their disbelief out the back and shoot it in the head. |
How do you know there haven't 10 to the power of 123 big bangs? |
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Xian
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: |
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Science and faith are not mutually exlcusive.
Science simply examines and explains aspects of God's creation. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| I chose Science because I can look around me and see myriad ways in which science makes my life better. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Xian wrote: |
Science and faith are not mutually exlcusive.
Science simply examines and explains aspects of God's creation. |
They are actually. Science requires proof, faith requires that there be no proof. If there is proof, it's not faith. So ye verily, science and faith are mutually exclusive. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
They are actually. Science requires proof, faith requires that there be no proof. If there is proof, it's not faith. So ye verily, science and faith are mutually exclusive. |
It takes a lot of faith to believe in science. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Demophobe wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
They are actually. Science requires proof, faith requires that there be no proof. If there is proof, it's not faith. So ye verily, science and faith are mutually exclusive. |
It takes a lot of faith to believe in science. |
How so? I know I have to have faith that human senses are accurate. We'll never get beyond that. But oh well. I also have to have faith that 2+2 = 4 is universal. Maybe there's a place in the universe where I put two apples next to two apples and don't get four apples. How granular do you want to get in this faith definition? For my part, it doesn't take a lot of faith to believe in either of those two. They seem sensible.
Science offers explanations (theories) for how things work in the observable, material world. It uses lines of evidence to back these explanations. I need to have faith in a whole bunch of things. There's not a conspiracy of scientists to publish each other's papers although they all know they're lies. That the evidence is strong enough. Etc. To that point, again, I don't need a lot of faith that there isn't a conspiracy. The evidence of many scientific theories again seems plausible to me. Atomic clocks run slower when moved at high speeds. Gravity bends light. That's good evidence for relativity. Cosmic background radiation and red shift are good evidence for Big Bang. The evidence seems good. Not sure how much I'm taking it on faith. Again, how granular do you want to get?
Science is also founded on the belief that there are no final answers. All knowledge is tentative. I surely have "faith" that quantum mechanics will one day be replaced by a more refined theory.
Religious faith tends not to be based on the idea that its core claims are tentative and subject to either revision or complete over throw. Jesus died and came back to life. That will never be subject to revision or over throw, unlike science. While one could hypothetically accumulate enough evidence that the reasonable conclusion is Caesar did not exist, there will never be enough evidence for a Christian that Jesus did not exist. There will never be DNA evidence good enough for a Mormon that North Americans did not come from the lost tribes of Israel. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
The chances of our particular universe coming into being out of the big bang, as against the number of possible universes, is one chance in 10 to the power of 123 (Lee Smolin). That number has more digits than there are protons in the universe. If the settings had been infinitessimally different, there would be no life as we know it, not to mention the inexplicable phenomenon of human consciousness.
Most of the modern day scientific priesthood would have me accept, on faith, that this astronomically improbable event happened as an accident of pure randomness.
To have that kind of faith not only requires one to suspend disbelief, it requires one to take their disbelief out the back and shoot it in the head. |
Douglas Adams had a great way to describe this sort of thinking:
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| �This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, "This is an interesting world I find myself in - an interesting hole I find myself in - fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'" |
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cangel
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: Jeonju, S. Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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This cr@p again... Just look at the definition of faith:
belief that is not based on proof
Religion is the biggest snow-job in history. Talk about a BS story! |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| Xian wrote: |
Science and faith are not mutually exlcusive.
Science simply examines and explains aspects of God's creation. |
They are actually. Science requires proof, faith requires that there be no proof. If there is proof, it's not faith. So ye verily, science and faith are mutually exclusive. |
but there was proof. so now its faith. right?? |
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