Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Zyzyfer]

[The Bobster]

Xyzyfer says :

[Zyzyfer]

English isn't required to live in the country and a lot of these kids don't want to study English, so that's why I'm lenient in regards to Korean in the classroom.

As soon as it becomes a case of the student really wanting to learn, as in the case of adult students, I go the other way, and make them work harder.

[tomato]

Here's a goodie which The Great Wall of Whiner posted on another thread:

Class full of kids, all speaking Korean.

New teacher walks in, pretends not to understand.

He's cute. No he's not. He has a big nose. They all have a big nose.

And on it goes.

At the end of the class, the teacher knows about his big nose.

He knows that Tony and Carl think their teacher looks scary.

He knows that Jessica thinks he is cute, while Mary disagrees.

Edward wonders if the teacher is gay, as he has an ear ring.

"Does he have a girlfriend?" "How old is he?" So many questions.

"O.K., to answer all your questions: I am 26, I do have a girlfriend, my nose is not so big compared to other foreigners, and NO...I am not gay."

(The students NEVER spoke Korean again after that).

[VanIslander]

I let the side chatter happen in Korean sometimes but I don't encourage it.

Only English though when the class is talking about a lesson, unless it's just to get clarification from classmates.

Basically "English please. This classroom is English only" is the general rule. That way I know they're at least talking about the subject at hand.

I use the odd hangeul term or phrase I've picked up for shock value, humour and attention getting.

[captain kirk]

Hey, sometimes they're talking about English-ee. Having a brainstorm about English student matters, what the word means and what I've said, and what the right word is, in Korean, for that.
I'm consulting the dictionary and sometimes what I give them isn't the exact meaning for the word, or how this English word (which has many other meanings) is being used in the sentence. So they're like, huh, that's not right, and confabbing about it.
Good students at this haggie, yes indeedy.
But when these same good students are yakking about whatever I give them a big bad wolf earthshaking blast and command 'no Korean in class, we're here to study English, right?'.
I wonder how much Korean is spoken in class with the Korean English teachers. Is it like a boutique compared to an auto shop.
Like (in Korean), here we have an English word, it means this, which reminds me, haha, of how in Korean...and going on at length with English class a kind of boutique. English items set on little tables in a space of their own with their little prices. While the 'space' around, to set the English item off on its own, is a friendly babble of Korean.
On the other hand, class with yours truly isn't smooth. Groping in the dictionary and hit and missing something out for a definition takes awhile. But it has the advantage that English is all we've got, and that's what we're there for, to study English. More like auto shop, grungy and clumsy but getting the job done. Honest, not smooth, not too smart and clumsy in struggling to get the basics going, and definitions. But much more real than the assumption I've made about what goes on in the Korean teacher's class.
Since the Korean teachers have the option to move out of English, and speak Korean, I'm suspect. The manipulative power of kids could coerce them into 'taking a break' and 'making it social/friendly/comfortable'.
Yeah, I have a bit of a grudge on about Korean English teachers. Why? I get the 'vibe' they see the foreign teacher as a sort of stunned mullet who's out of the Korean picture and scheme of things. But at the same time speaks better English and DOES that exclusively in class. Maybe that's threatening. However I get the impression Korea is their only planet and they are imperturbably more at home. A haggie is a Korean construct, and the presence of a foreign English teacher keeps it real, I figure. Real as it is
How can a blundering alien like this foreigner be keeping it real is something I doubt they wonder.

[manlyboy]

For me, the biggest down-side of an English only classroom is the time and effort that has to be spent policing it. I hate having to stop in the middle of something just because a kid needs to be reprimanded for saying "PC bang" or whatever. Behavior management is one of the toughest aspects of teaching kids in hagwons as it is. Add to it a no-Korean policy and that's a small but significant chunk of your lesson time gone right there.
The theory behind total language immersion is that it will reduce dependence on the native language, and facilitate making the foreign language more habitual. It's theoretically sound, but it does require a strong commitment on the part of the learner. If the learner is resistant, this approach can be counter-productive. It compounds their frustration. The reason why language courses the world over tend to have high drop-out rates is because learning a language is an inherently tedious, frustrating, and self-defeating process. This aspect of language learning must be taken into account by a teacher in regards to what kind of students they are working with. The best thing you can do for resistant hagwon students is to generate enthusiasm for English and to alleviate their frustration. An all-English environment might only exacerbate it.

[peemil]

You should try being at my school. None of the teachers speak English to the students. The Director teaches too, but she doesn't speak English. Then I walk in and you know... "Please speak English." Not going to happen... It's like... "The other Koreans let us speak Korean any time we want.

I just had to take a very hard line with it. And this was an epidemic when I arrived. Because the foreigner who was the teacher at my school before I spoke Korean too.

It took me months to get it out... I tried everything here. The writing as punishment worked really well plus some other stuff. But I'm not talking about writing it down 10 times in a book, I'm talking about writing it down 125 times in a book. And everytime some speaks while they are writing it down just adding another ten.

Come the end of class you tell them that it is homework. If everyone doesn't do it then it will be doubled the next day.

But when you're the only one in an entire English school that speaks English... And you can't explain it even to your boss. What the hell are you supposed to do? You gotta fix it yourself. Come down hard and quickly and follow through with your threats.

Now the kids know that when they are going to get disciplined, and they knowt that it is going to be difficult experience. I'm lucky that I have my father's eyes when he was angry. They used to scare the living hell out of me and that's all I use now. Just had to set out the rules.

[HamuHamu]

My school also has an English-only rule, which I enforce in my kindie classroom, to a degree. When one student is telling me a story and gets stuck, they'll usually turn and whisper in Korean to the most fluent student in class hopeing she can sort it out in English so that I understand. This girl always wants to then tell it to me in English. I won't let her, but make her tell the original student in English who can then tell me so that student will learn it. Some of my students speak in English with the odd Korean noun stuck in there and hope I get it. If I do, I make them repeat the word in English. At least they learn it that way, and if I were to punish them in some way for having said that in Korean, then they would probably stop trying to tell me these little stories at all.

If no one knows the word, they draw it. Or, I get them to categorize the word - is it a verb? a noun? If it's a noun, I ask what group it goes into -- the food group, the places group, the clothes group? They can usually sort that out, and then we can figure it out together. But I do find that when one student is really trying to tell me something and they can only get it out in Korean, I really make the effort to find it in English and because we have put some work into figuring it out, they tend to remember it more easily.

At certain times, they are allowed to speak Korean if they have been good that day - when I give them 5 minutes of "Free Time" or something....if they haven't been speaking Korean that day, then they can speak Korean in free time, but ONLY for words they don't know in English. It means that I hear a lot of "Sarah can I please have the blah blah blah." Or Blah blah blah mother blah blah green dress blah blah blah department store..."

My students also know that if they are arguing with each other in Korean, I won't deal with it. Someone tells me that so and so said something mean to them, but it was in Korean, I won't sort it out for them - I won't make one student apologize, because I don't know the truth about what was said. If they are fighting in English then I will help them sort it out because I can know for sure what the "truth" about what happened is. Not to suggest that they fight and argue a lot, but they're 6 years old.....

I'm just surprised to hear so many people saying that grammar lessons are more beneficial - or even that it is necessary - being taught in students' first language. How many people that have a TESOL or CELTA or other certification, agree with that? I disagree fully -- obviously the grammar being taught has to be at the student's level, and when it is, there is no need for explaining it in Korean - IF you have done your homework and YOU fully understand the grammar you are teaching. Make sure to teach only one language point in a class, make the activities controlled, ensure that your examples are thought out in advance, and that you don't use any exceptions to the rule in the first class. I mean, you're not going to be teaching the future perfect continuous to students who can only comprehend "I can run. I can not fly."

[babtangee]

[turtlepi1]

[d503]

I have to say that I think any language instruction should be done in both languages. Pure immersion learning is god awful for beginners, and no I don't think they are better in the long run. Learning a new language is a very daunting task, if you walk into it and find yourself adrift in words and grammar you won't get anywhere (hence why you use your native language as a crutch for a time) as you proficiency increases your need for the crutch decreases.

What I find most challenging in my older classes is that the kids aren't willing to get off the crutch. I have kids who are able to read stories and answer my questions about them but will get hung up and freeze if they do not know the direct Korean equivalent for a word. So what do I do I explain it in English. That is what I am there for, most of them have learned by now that only if it is hampering their overall understanding and they aren't grasping its explanation in English do I bust out the dictionary.

My other issue related to their grammar is their inability to trust themselves. For example, we just did a unit on article usage (the bane of English grammar according to many). When the kids would just read the sentence as they thought it should be 5 times out of ten they'd get it right. The other times if they would read it with all the choices they would pick the right one, but during this whole experimentation I would have to stand there and watch, because the second I walk away all hell breaks out with cries of teacher I don't understand. Sigh but it's getting better, I know tell them neither do I, and then they try on their own without my direct supervision.

[kimchikowboy]

[prosodic]

[some waygug-in]

My 2 cents..... Hey

I don't agree that English only is necessary, although I think it is possible with the right teacher. You have to REALLY know what you are doing to be able to teach effectively using only English.

I freely admit, I am not that good a teacher that I can conduct English-only lessons, although I keep it 90% English or better.

I have no hesitation in using a bilingual dictionary to help explain words that I otherwise can't seem to get accross.

If I use my own Korean language studies as an example, I can say that I still can't function in a Korean only classroom. (and I've been here 3 years now) Maybe I'm just a dolt, but I suspect that a lot of Korean students feel the same as I feel when I'm in my Korean class.

I recently tried to have my lessons in all Korean and found them to be little more than a frustrating waste of time.

I can't understand the teacher's instructions, explanations, or often the point of the lessons. The teacher speaks no English, so I can't ask when I don't understand something. (which is all the time)

I understand that this would be significantly different if my teacher were a more experienced at teaching, (she's just a university student) but I think this is an excellent example of just what we are talking about here.

From what I have seen of immersion, it only works if it is total immersion.

Having an all-English class one or two hours a day is not immersion.

It is far better to have students understand the lesson, even if some parts of it are explained in their native language, than to have them go away from the classroom frustrated and saying to themselves "I have no idea what he was talking about".

I do agree that too much of the native language is not good, but none at all is even worse. Unless you have a very talented teacher who can explain even the slightest nuances of language using just gestures or diagrams or very simple phrases.

I am getting better at this myself, but there are times when I just can't explain things or when they just don't get my explanation.

Anyway, I'm sure plenty will disagree with this, but hey... it was my 2 cents.