|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
|
 Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| superacidjax wrote: |
| SPINOZA wrote: |
| The "we're better" bit is ludicrous. What on earth could possibly possess a Korean person to believe they are better than a white person? |
I don't know, why don't you ask them. Korean illusions of superiority are no secret. |
Defensive xenophobia, homogeneousness, pure blood are no secret for sure. Superiority? That's different. Other than ridiculous references to the use of chopsticks, I've never heard a serious defence of how such a small country the whole world hardly knows about is superior. Outright hatred of Japan tells you all you need to know.
| SPINOZA wrote: |
You wouldn't say this is just a tad over the top? |
| Quote: |
Asia has most definitely NOT been under the "white man's thumb" for over 300 hundred years. As far as imperialistic and crusading.. what the heck are you talking about? The Mongols, Chinese, Japanese and Koreans were all actual or attempted imperialists. The Arabs and Moors were also notoriously imperialistic. The Muslims are today some of the worlds most ambitious imperialists, although their successes are mostly confined to the Middle East, Africa and Central Asia. The current situation in the Sudan is due to non-white "imperialism." The Taiwanese and Tibet situations resulted from Chinese imperialistic ambitions. The Pacific theater in World War II was due to Japanese imperialist ambitions.
The "Blame Whitey" rhetoric is about as tired and relevant as a John Kerry press conference. |
I didn't necessarily mean colonialism. There's a difference between imperialism and colonialism and I might have meant 'crusading' metaphorically.
Western (particularly English-speaking) culture, language, business is imperialistic....to say nothing of an American military presence (white countries don;t need Koreans helping them out militarily) and substantial areas of Asia being colonized by the Brits - Singapore and Hong Kong on this side.
| Quote: |
| The "Blame Whitey" rhetoric is about as tired and relevant as a John Kerry press conference |
This statement has no relevance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| whatever wrote: |
| There is no such thing as 'rude' in Korea. |
Indeed, its all excusable under the banner of "culture". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| SPINOZA wrote: |
| Western (particularly English-speaking) culture, language, business is imperialistic....to say nothing of an American military presence (white countries don;t need Koreans helping them out militarily) and substantial areas of Asia being colonized by the Brits - Singapore and Hong Kong on this side. |
The Chinese aren't imperialistic? The North Koreans had Chinese troops all over the place during the Korean War. The entire country of North Korea has effectively been under the thumb of communist China. Tibet was not colonized by the Chinese.. it was invaded. Tibetan culture has been driven out by Chinese culture.. due to straight-up imperialism.
Japan hasn't invaded countries with imperialist aims? The Cubans haven't exported their governmental or social constructs? (Hugo Chavez anyone?) The Chinese certainly are not involved in the Sudan, Nigeria or Central Asia.
You are delusional. The "blame whitey" attitude you demonstrates, illustrates your own arrogance.
The "imperialist" business attitudes allegedly demonstrated by the west is simply globalization, the free movement of products and services irregardless of borders. The Americans and British aren't try to conquer the rest of the world with their culture. They are simply selling what people are wanting to buy. Besides, the US has a massive trade deficit. The US imports more products than it exports. The US is more culturally diverse than ANY Asian country.. if anything, the US (and Britain) are the opposite of imperialists, they are actually taking in more foreign influence than they are "forcing" upon others.
Singapore and Hong Kong are great examples, however these cities are small outposts. It isn't like Britain colonized the whole of China. Americans certainly aren't imperialists in Japan.
If we allow that the West ARE imperialists as you claim, then look at the results. Singapore and Hong Kong have some of the largest economies in the world. Compare Singapore with the economic output of Indonesia or even South Korea. It seems like the alleged "imperialism" has led to some of the highest quality of life in Asia. The lesson is that trade improves economies and the lives of people. Koreans are trying to be, what you'd call "imperialist" with their "Korean Wave" crap. The Chinese are doing it with their business dealings in Central Asia and Africa.
This "white" versus "non-white" is a ridiculous distinction. Are Arabs white? Are Americans white? It's about cultures not colors. There is no such thing as "White" culture. So-called "White" culture is a myth. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Newbie wrote: |
Fools.
My first year of two I thought it was cute. But once you get to know Koreans (which some of you obviously don't) you'll quickly realize it is just another "look at him. he's different. he's not korean. we're better. let's take the piss." You're in an absolute fantasy world if you don't realize this.
Ask yourself something. When white teenagers in Canada or the USA walk up to an Asian adult and start mockingnly saying "lai ho ma. ni hao. ching ching, chang chang chong, konichiwa, etc." Are they being friendly? Would this kind of behaviour be tolerated?
Again, I'll reiterate that if 1 or 2 kids comes up politely and says "hi", then I'm all for a friendly smile and "hi, how are you". |
If some kids were studying German in North America and happened upon a German tourist - I think it'd be polite and friendly for them to attempt to greet the person in their native language. |
One more time: if they POLITELY greet the person then all is cool.
But, laughing and following the hello with "how are you. i'm fine thank you. welcome to korea. you're so handsome.nice to meet you. what time is it. happy birthday." etc, etc. Then it is just rude. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Damulgun
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Saying America doesn't practice Imperialism is trying to say Koreans don't drink SoJu. 
China is nothing like America. They don't goto different continents to wage wars in someone else's backyard to make a profit. Funny part is if they try to protect their backyard it's imperialism to eyes of the white men. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| superacidjax wrote: |
| SPINOZA wrote: |
| Western (particularly English-speaking) culture, language, business is imperialistic....to say nothing of an American military presence (white countries don;t need Koreans helping them out militarily) and substantial areas of Asia being colonized by the Brits - Singapore and Hong Kong on this side. |
The Chinese aren't imperialistic? The North Koreans had Chinese troops all over the place during the Korean War. The entire country of North Korea has effectively been under the thumb of communist China. Tibet was not colonized by the Chinese.. it was invaded. Tibetan culture has been driven out by Chinese culture.. due to straight-up imperialism.
Japan hasn't invaded countries with imperialist aims? The Cubans haven't exported their governmental or social constructs? (Hugo Chavez anyone?) The Chinese certainly are not involved in the Sudan, Nigeria or Central Asia.
You are delusional. The "blame whitey" attitude you demonstrates, illustrates your own arrogance.
The "imperialist" business attitudes allegedly demonstrated by the west is simply globalization, the free movement of products and services irregardless of borders. The Americans and British aren't try to conquer the rest of the world with their culture. They are simply selling what people are wanting to buy. Besides, the US has a massive trade deficit. The US imports more products than it exports. The US is more culturally diverse than ANY Asian country.. if anything, the US (and Britain) are the opposite of imperialists, they are actually taking in more foreign influence than they are "forcing" upon others.
Singapore and Hong Kong are great examples, however these cities are small outposts. It isn't like Britain colonized the whole of China. Americans certainly aren't imperialists in Japan.
If we allow that the West ARE imperialists as you claim, then look at the results. Singapore and Hong Kong have some of the largest economies in the world. Compare Singapore with the economic output of Indonesia or even South Korea. It seems like the alleged "imperialism" has led to some of the highest quality of life in Asia. The lesson is that trade improves economies and the lives of people. Koreans are trying to be, what you'd call "imperialist" with their "Korean Wave" crap. The Chinese are doing it with their business dealings in Central Asia and Africa.
This "white" versus "non-white" is a ridiculous distinction. Are Arabs white? Are Americans white? It's about cultures not colors. There is no such thing as "White" culture. So-called "White" culture is a myth. |
Oh good lord. Am I a totally bad, unclear writer or something whereby the actual meaning of my comments is completely different from the meaning I intend?
Listen buddy. I am not "blaming whitey". I'm not saying the West are imperialists, as in deliberately taking over. I'm not saying other peoples aren't also imperialists - Chinese, Japanese, etc. This is completely irrelevant. I did however say that Western (particularly English-speaking) culture, language, business is imperialistic. This simply means that it spreads to other places. Non-western societies come under the influence of Western culture in matters like industry, technology, law, politics, economics, lifestyle, diet, language, religion, values. Westernization has been an influence across the world in the last few centuries. It was this fact that I was appealing to in opposing Newbie's belief that Koreans think they are "better than" caucasians. Korea is becoming more like the West. The West is NOT becoming more like Korea. Koreans need to learn English. People in America and Canada do not need to learn Korean. Korea is full of pizza, McDonalds, KFC. The West is not full of Kimbap Cheongook. Are you with me?
An absolutely simple point that you've spectacularly drifted from with the above irrelevance. Hopefully the thread will not drift off into a debate about imperialism because my point was that it makes no sense to assume that because Korean kids say hello to foreigners it follows that they think Koreans are superior to foreigners. There is absolutely no justification for this belief given that the English-speaking world has a massive influence on the world whereas Korea does not.
Last edited by SPINOZA on Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uberscheisse
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Location: japan is better than korea.
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
first thing - for those that are offended by the "hello" - if a kid is trying his best to 'other' you and make you feel like a foreigner... just consider the last time you really gave a crap about the opinions of a 15 year old boy.
second - just sitting in the park in my hood i've been said "hello" to and engaged the young people in conversation. some of them have been interesting and cool once you get past the giggly stuff.
so yeah. people can continue to post and get their panties in a whirl about this particular rudeness but it kinda just makes everyone look thin-skinned. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| superacidjax wrote: |
| The "imperialist" business attitudes allegedly demonstrated by the west is simply globalization, the free movement of products and services irregardless of borders.. |
A lot of people might agree with you there! That globalization = imperialism.
Yet more people think 'globalization' is just another word for 'Americanization'. Personally I don't agree; Americanization forms a large part of globalization because of America's dominant cultural influence, but other cultures have their own, lesser, threads in the pattern.
| superacidjax wrote: |
| The Americans and British aren't try to conquer the rest of the world with their culture. They are simply selling what people are wanting to buy.. |
Like opium?  Columbian druglords sell what people want to buy too.
Just saying it's not quite as simple as that. Also, people's perception of needs and desires is highly susceptible to influence, not to mention that established channels of distribution positively reinforce patterns of sales. Anyone in marketing, for instance, could appreciate that.
| superacidjax wrote: |
| Besides, the US has a massive trade deficit. The US imports more products than it exports. |
Funny how that works isn't it? Print lots of dollars, get your 'colonies' producing goods for you, suck in those imports, and if anyone threatens the system smash them to smithereens. If you don't focus on the pieces of paper or electronic blips we call money it looks more like a great stream of tribute flowing in.
No-one is ever going to call in those debts unless someone gets bigger and more powerful than the US, which doesn't look likely any time soon, despite the hype about China.
| superacidjax wrote: |
| The US is more culturally diverse than ANY Asian country.. if anything, the US (and Britain) are the opposite of imperialists, they are actually taking in more foreign influence than they are "forcing" upon others. |
Certainly the US is more liberal than most places - developed countries have a tendency to be. I don't think it helps to pigeonhole the US as 'imperialist' as if that really explained anything, but the US is most often accused of 'imperialism' not for imposing trade agreements on reluctant nations but for actively supporting abhorrent totalitarian regimes or dictatorships around the globe, sometimes with an economic motive but often with a misguided political motive.
Britain and other European countries are morally no better. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
superacidjax
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Damulgun wrote: |
| China is nothing like America. They don't goto different continents to wage wars in someone else's backyard to make a profit. |
Interesting. According to the Washington Post, China is the Sudan's largest suppliers of weapons. Interesting further, because China is Sudan's largest oil investor. The conflict in Darfur is being propagated by the Chinese in an effort to gain oil fields.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21143-2004Dec22.html
China is also Iran's largest foreign oil investor. There's certainly no chance that Chinese weaponry is a mainstay of the Iranian arsenal. Chinese weapons were in large numbers in the Iran-Iraq war. Certainly no profit motive there, selling weapons. They probably gave them away for the good of the people. The Chinese are the chief weapons supplier to North Korea.
China is involved in a number of proxy conflicts. Just because their troops aren't actively on the ground, doesn't mean they don't promote conflict for profit.
According to the BBC, "China is the only major arms exporting power that has not signed up to any multilateral agreements with criteria to prevent arms exports likely to be used for serious human rights violations."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/5070220.stm
Of course, China doesn't use conflict to profit. The Americans went into Iraq alone with no UN mandate. China isn't on the UN Security Council and didn't vote for the multi-national coalition forces to invade Iraq. China most certainly isn't a founding member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a Central Asian equivalent of the Warsaw Pact.
The US (within the last century) didn't invade a country to annex it because it was its "right" (i.e. Tibet.) The Americans aren't killing Muslims in their own country because they want to maintain the right to worship (Uighurs.) The US doesn't turn tanks on internal, peaceful protestors (Tianammen Square.) The US doesn't kill journalists or imprision them without a trial.
So, it that regard, China and the US are very different.
No. China is a peaceful government with no imperialistic or profit-oriented aims.
You should probably study the geo-politics of China a little more thoroughly before suggesting that China is more altruistic or less profit-oriented than America. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard Krainium
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| To the OP and Hogwonguy...I agree, I will teach my kids not to say hello to you guys...I'll teach 'em *beep* you, asshole! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Damulgun
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| superacidjax wrote: |
| Damulgun wrote: |
| China is nothing like America. They don't goto different continents to wage wars in someone else's backyard to make a profit. |
Interesting. According to the Washington Post, China is the Sudan's largest suppliers of weapons. Interesting further, because China is Sudan's largest oil investor. The conflict in Darfur is being propagated by the Chinese in an effort to gain oil fields.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21143-2004Dec22.html
China is also Iran's largest foreign oil investor. There's certainly no chance that Chinese weaponry is a mainstay of the Iranian arsenal. Chinese weapons were in large numbers in the Iran-Iraq war. Certainly no profit motive there, selling weapons. They probably gave them away for the good of the people. The Chinese are the chief weapons supplier to North Korea.
China is involved in a number of proxy conflicts. Just because their troops aren't actively on the ground, doesn't mean they don't promote conflict for profit.
According to the BBC, "China is the only major arms exporting power that has not signed up to any multilateral agreements with criteria to prevent arms exports likely to be used for serious human rights violations."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/5070220.stm
Of course, China doesn't use conflict to profit. The Americans went into Iraq alone with no UN mandate. China isn't on the UN Security Council and didn't vote for the multi-national coalition forces to invade Iraq. China most certainly isn't a founding member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a Central Asian equivalent of the Warsaw Pact.
The US (within the last century) didn't invade a country to annex it because it was its "right" (i.e. Tibet.) The Americans aren't killing Muslims in their own country because they want to maintain the right to worship (Uighurs.) The US doesn't turn tanks on internal, peaceful protestors (Tianammen Square.) The US doesn't kill journalists or imprision them without a trial.
So, it that regard, China and the US are very different.
No. China is a peaceful government with no imperialistic or profit-oriented aims.
You should probably study the geo-politics of China a little more thoroughly before suggesting that China is more altruistic or less profit-oriented than America. |
America is the only nation to commit genocide and drop atomic bombs.
And you were saying? West does some fucked up shit of their own and try to blame others. That is your tactics isn't it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seoulman1
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Location: Jamsil
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Richard Krainium wrote: |
| To the OP and Hogwonguy...I agree, I will teach my kids not to say hello to you guys...I'll teach 'em *beep* you, *beep*! |
I would like to know the percentage of foreigners in Korea that are ESL teachers. The reason I get offended is because I have spent the morning trying my best to teach good English. Half the schools I teach would probably be happy for me to teach monotomous crap but I dont, I use all my energy to try and let my students have fun with English. And I am guessing the majority of other teachers are the same
When I step out onto the street, I reek of ESL. Some kids pick up on this and mock me. They are not simply saying 'hello'. Anyone with two cents upstairs can pickup on it and anyone who goes along with their antics is blind and fueling bad behavour.
As others have said, if it is said genuinly and politely, even though it is completely random, then it is ok. If is said in even a slightly mocking tone, then that is the problem. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
OH MY GOD!
Today, something happened that I can't believe! As I was out and about, minding my own business, I noticed that there was a gang... A GANG, I SWEAR!... of what looked like 12 year olds. And you know what those little hooligans did to me?
They said "Hi!" and they giggled.
GIGGLED!!
And to add insult to injury, they waved as they said it.
I was tempted to fly right over there and chop the kids in the mouth for their disrespect. But then a pretty girl smiled at me, and I forgot... UNTIL NOW!
...
My god! I have post traumatic stress disorder!
S-someone hug me.... *sob* |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ella
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Well said, seoulman1. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
steroidmaximus
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: GangWon-Do
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Damn, steroid! Bad day? Didn't you used to be known as an apologist? |
actually, I prefer to think of it as being balanced: I call shit on either side of this debate. Sometimes I play the role of the apologist, other times not. Depends on what is being said. My post record will back this up.
| Quote: |
| You wouldn't say this is just a tad over the top? |
A tad, perhaps. But as I've argued before, it is an indication of how we are perceived as foreigners.
| Quote: |
China is nothing like America. They don't goto different continents to wage wars in someone else's backyard to make a profit. Funny part is if they try to protect their backyard it's imperialism to eyes of the white men
|
Once you've actually read some history, come back and we'll have a talk. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
