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| Which applies to you? |
| I am an atheist, content with my disbelief |
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55% |
[ 20 ] |
| I am an atheist, who wishes I was agnostic |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| I am an atheist, who wishes I was a believer |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I am an agnostic, content with my indecision |
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11% |
[ 4 ] |
| I am an agnostic, who wants to be atheist |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I am an agnostic, who wants to believe |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| I am currently a believer, secure in my beliefs |
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16% |
[ 6 ] |
| I am currently a believer, with small doubts |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
| I am currently a believer, having a crisis with regards to my faith |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Other - please elaborate |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 36 |
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| Author |
Message |
JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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 Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
| I'm an athiest and am content in my disbelief. I used to admire people who had faith but then realised that I admired those people(i have many relations who are devout catholics) not because they had faith but because they are basically good people. |
Really? I've always found atheists and people who don't really care about their religion to be "good" people. |
I think you are misunderstanding me. Of course athiests can be good people too. Where and when i was growing up, I knew many people with strong faith. Coincidentally they were mostly nice people, so in my head for a long time I thought that faith was a factor in their personalities. Now if I was growing up in the same enviroment but nearly everyone was athiest I would have come to the opposite(maybe not opposite exactly but u know what i mean) but similarily false conclusion. What I came to realise was that good people are good people and faith or lack of it has nothing to do with it. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:33 am Post subject: |
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[quote="JMO"]
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| What I came to realise was that good people are good people and faith or lack of it has nothing to do with it. |
I would agree with that too up to a point but how can we define what a good person is and who is to judge? What is the universal standard? Can we all agree on one standard form of measure? I don't think we can. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Vicissitude"]
| JMO wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| What I came to realise was that good people are good people and faith or lack of it has nothing to do with it. |
I would agree with that too up to a point but how can we define what a good person is and who is to judge? What is the universal standard? Can we all agree on one standard form of measure? I don't think we can. |
Well yea it would be hard to come up with an exact definition of what a good person is, but I'm sure we can all recognise one if we are exposed to them for long enough, |
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merkurix
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Location: Not far from the deep end.
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| I voted secure in my beliefs. For those who don't believe in a higher power, I cannot prove His existence to you, as all evidence for this is subjective; though likewise you cannot prove to me he does not exist using objective criteria, because monotheists like meeself cannot find objective evidence convincing enough. If you are content with what you believe, I am content with what you believe as well; that's all that matters. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:43 am Post subject: |
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[quote="JMO"]
| Vicissitude wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| What I came to realise was that good people are good people and faith or lack of it has nothing to do with it. |
I would agree with that too up to a point but how can we define what a good person is and who is to judge? What is the universal standard? Can we all agree on one standard form of measure? I don't think we can. |
Well yea it would be hard to come up with an exact definition of what a good person is, but I'm sure we can all recognise one if we are exposed to them for long enough, |
I don't think so. If I had a thousand dollars for every time I changed my mind about people, I'd retire a millionaire.
And how long is long enough? Also, what about thinking objectively towards our own closest relatives? That seems quite impossible. Nearly everyone will claim that their parents were good people. How many times have we heard about priests who have molested children and there's still parishioners who support those same priests because they are "good people?" That's just one example. I bet there's people in this world who still think Cho is was a "good person" even after all he's done. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Vicissitude"]
| JMO wrote: |
| Vicissitude wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| What I came to realise was that good people are good people and faith or lack of it has nothing to do with it. |
I would agree with that too up to a point but how can we define what a good person is and who is to judge? What is the universal standard? Can we all agree on one standard form of measure? I don't think we can. |
Well yea it would be hard to come up with an exact definition of what a good person is, but I'm sure we can all recognise one if we are exposed to them for long enough, |
I don't think so. If I had a thousand dollars for every time I changed my mind about people, I'd retire a millionaire.
And how long is long enough? Also, what about thinking objectively towards our own closest relatives? That seems quite impossible. Nearly everyone will claim that their parents were good people. How many times have we heard about priests who have molested children and there's still parishioners who support those same priests because they are "good people?" That's just one example. I bet there's people in this world who still think Cho is was a "good person" even after all he's done. |
Well I rarely change my mind on people that I come to know well, probably to my detriment. I agree on the relatives idea, although I think your examples are extreme.
I'd say that most people will claim their parent's are good people because most people are good people. Most people feel empathy for other people, most people will give their time to help others, most people won't wish harm upon others etc etc.
I think maybe I have a pretty wide range in which i would call someone a good person though. |
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Masta_Don
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Hyehwa-dong, Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:07 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Vicissitude"]
| JMO wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| What I came to realise was that good people are good people and faith or lack of it has nothing to do with it. |
I would agree with that too up to a point but how can we define what a good person is and who is to judge? What is the universal standard? Can we all agree on one standard form of measure? I don't think we can. |
The universal standard is what you set, Ayn Rand ITT. Otherwise you leave yourself open to the attacks of 'well if gays can marry then so can people and animals' on the slippery slope down to relativism.
As for myself, I'm an apatheistic. One of those things that I'm not sure Korea taught me or the time was right. Doesn't matter one way or another to me as long as you leave me alone about what you believe. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
Other
I am not an atheist, nor agnostic, nor a fundamental believer in any religion. I am, however, convinced that there is a spiritual force in this universe and there is some sort of spiritual energy BEFORE a physical life as well as AFTER the physical body is no longer living.
Our very existence is based on energy that must come from somewhere and it doesn't just disappear when we die. From ashes to ashes and dust to dust. We return to where we came from whether in the physical or spiritual sense. Some of us come from better spiritual energy than others. We are NOT all created equal. |
Can you define this spiritual energy? Can it be measured? When science speaks of energy it simply means the capacity of something to do work. Energy in science can be measured and quantified in a concrete way. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
what I want to know is, what happens at an athiests funeral?
or a non believer. |
Same as with everyone else's: The friends and loved ones cry over the loss of someone they care about. Why would it be different? |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Vicissitude wrote: |
Other
I am not an atheist, nor agnostic, nor a fundamental believer in any religion. I am, however, convinced that there is a spiritual force in this universe and there is some sort of spiritual energy BEFORE a physical life as well as AFTER the physical body is no longer living.
Our very existence is based on energy that must come from somewhere and it doesn't just disappear when we die. From ashes to ashes and dust to dust. We return to where we came from whether in the physical or spiritual sense. Some of us come from better spiritual energy than others. We are NOT all created equal. |
Can you define this spiritual energy? [Yes, but I'm not going to do that here]
Can it be measured? [yes/no, but it's not that important]
When science [science is a long way off from discovering everything] speaks of energy it simply means the capacity of something to do work. Energy in science can be measured and quantified in a concrete way. |
There are some people who care to measure spiritual energy, but I really do not. |
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unknown9398
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Location: Yeongcheon, S. Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Atheists and Agnostics - happy with your faith status? |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Most of my life, I have wavered between calling myself atheist and agnostic. Lately, I have had to accept that I am basically an atheist who would like to be an agnostic. My mother is a smug atheist, quite secure in her disbelief. My father was agnostic, and I was grateful for this when he died. At least he wasn't sure that it was going to be the end of him, and I took some comfort in that. Some of my friends are secure in their faith, and I rather envy them. But, faith is something I just don't have. I'd like to believe, but I don't. |
I'm an agnostic who wants to believe. Like you, faith is not enough for me. I need evidence. All it would take is a single definitive action that I could put my finger on, but it hasn't been forthcoming. Yet, as someone who had a lot of early religious programming, I always have nagging doubts that will probably never fade. I suppose I prefer it that way. |
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unknown9398
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Location: Yeongcheon, S. Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
Other
I am not an atheist, nor agnostic, nor a fundamental believer in any religion. I am, however, convinced that there is a spiritual force in this universe and there is some sort of spiritual energy BEFORE a physical life as well as AFTER the physical body is no longer living.
Our very existence is based on energy that must come from somewhere and it doesn't just disappear when we die. From ashes to ashes and dust to dust. We return to where we came from whether in the physical or spiritual sense. Some of us come from better spiritual energy than others. We are NOT all created equal. |
Your beliefs are interesting, and have qualities of several mainstream faiths. Your desire to believe in something is strong, but how did you reach your conclusions?
As an agnostic, I don't subscribe to the notion that things we don't yet understand are attributable to a deity, or as you believe, a persistent energy force. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Vicissitude wrote: |
Other
I am not an atheist, nor agnostic, nor a fundamental believer in any religion. I am, however, convinced that there is a spiritual force in this universe and there is some sort of spiritual energy BEFORE a physical life as well as AFTER the physical body is no longer living.
Our very existence is based on energy that must come from somewhere and it doesn't just disappear when we die. From ashes to ashes and dust to dust. We return to where we came from whether in the physical or spiritual sense. Some of us come from better spiritual energy than others. We are NOT all created equal. |
Can you define this spiritual energy? [Yes, but I'm not going to do that here]
Can it be measured? [yes/no, but it's not that important]
When science [science is a long way off from discovering everything] speaks of energy it simply means the capacity of something to do work. Energy in science can be measured and quantified in a concrete way. |
There are some people who care to measure spiritual energy, but I really do not. |
Wow a ompelling case you do not present. You can define it, but you don't feel like it. You can measure it but at present you are busy.
This
| Quote: |
| science is a long way off from discovering everything |
claim does not mean you can claim smething exists without evidence. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Can it be measured? |
You didn't do liberal arts, eh?
I change between atheist and agnostic quite frequently. I'm 100% sure that the monotheistic faiths are man-made (and obviously so) and can offer only childish explanations of our existence. I don't think about it too much, and focus my attention on the major religions and criticism of. In the end, we will die and turn to dust. No sense in worrying about the details.
About the atheist funeral. No mention of god and how "he is in a better place" (as if 6 feet under and cold is a better place). More focus on the life lived and such. We die and we turn to dust, and acknowledging this at the point of death doesn't take away for the experience of life, now. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| unknown9398 wrote: |
| Vicissitude wrote: |
Other
I am not an atheist, nor agnostic, nor a fundamental believer in any religion. I am, however, convinced that there is a spiritual force in this universe and there is some sort of spiritual energy BEFORE a physical life as well as AFTER the physical body is no longer living.
Our very existence is based on energy that must come from somewhere and it doesn't just disappear when we die. From ashes to ashes and dust to dust. We return to where we came from whether in the physical or spiritual sense. Some of us come from better spiritual energy than others. We are NOT all created equal. |
Your beliefs are interesting, and have qualities of several mainstream faiths. Your desire to believe in something is strong, but how did you reach your conclusions? [I studied, world religions, eastern philosophy, western new age beliefs, science, atheism and the paranormal. Atheism does not explain the paranormal but rather denies that it even exists.]
As an agnostic, I don't subscribe to the notion that things we don't yet understand are attributable to a deity, or as you believe, a persistent energy force. |
A deity implies that there is a supernatural god/goddess that is worshiped. I believe that any god that is truly a god is not insecure and thus requires no worship. Hindus understand this philosophy very well. |
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