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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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 Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: TURKEY wants to Invade Iraq: USA says NO WAY! |
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Gates warns Turkey not to invade Iraq
By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer
SINGAPORE - Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Sunday cautioned Turkey against sending troops into northern Iraq, as it has threatened, to hunt down Kurdish rebels it accuses of carrying out terrorist raids inside Turkey.
"We hope there would not be a unilateral military action across the border into Iraq," Gates told a news conference after meetings here with Asian government officials. Turkey and Iraq were not represented.
Gates said he sympathized with the Turks' concern about cross-border raids by Kurdish rebels.
"The Turks have a genuine concern with Kurdish terrorism that takes place on Turkish soil," he said. "So one can understand their frustration and unhappiness over this. Several hundred Turks lose their lives each year, and we have been working with the Turks to try to help them get control of this problem on Turkish soil."
Tensions have heightened in recent weeks in northern Iraq as Turkey has built up its military forces on Iraq's border, a move clearly meant to pressure Iraq to rein in the rebels of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, separatists who launch raids into southeast Turkey's Kurdish region from hideouts in Iraq.
Turkey's political and military leaders have been debating whether to try to root out those bases, and perhaps set up a buffer zone across the frontier as the Turkish army has done in the past. Turkey's military chief said Thursday the army was ready and only awaiting orders for a cross-border offensive.
Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki on Saturday urged Turkey not to stage a new incursion, saying his government will not allow the relatively peaceful area of northern Iraq to be turned into a battleground.
Turks accuse Iraqi Kurds, who once fought alongside the Turkish soldiers against the PKK in Iraq, of supporting the separatist rebels and worry that the war in Iraq could lead to the country's disintegration and the creation of a Kurdish state in the north.
At the Singapore news conference Gates was asked about a reported U.S. naval bombardment on Friday of terrorist targets in northern Somalia.
"That's possibly an ongoing operation," he said, adding that as a result he would not comment on it.
Gates was in Singapore to attend an international security conference known as the Shangri-la Dialogue, where he reassured Asian nations that the United States remains committed to being a Pacific power and is not distracted by the Iraq war.
He said he did not ask any Asian government representatives to make new commitments to help in Iraq, but he did discuss with them at length the prospect of providing more assistance in Afghanistan. He said some countries, which he did not name, told him they were open to considering new commitments in Afghanistan.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070603/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/gates
Questions:
1.) WILL Turkey invade Iraq?
a.) If so, how will the US military respond?
b.) If so, how will the world community respond?
c.) If so, how will the Iraqi people respond, including the Kurds?
d.) If so, how will Iran respond?
e.) If so, will the USA become the scapegoat for what Turkey does?
f.) If so, how will terrorists and insurgents respond?
2.) How does this change the perception that the USA is the sole and only "invader" of Iraq when we have other countries such as Turkey that clearly would ALSO like to invade? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Bush made it clear it was being orchestrated as a major "crusade" from the start 
DEJA-VU! |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
Bush made it clear it was being orchestrated as a major "crusade" from the start
DEJA-VU! |
What's that got to do with the article? How does that answer any of the questions asked? |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Turkey is interesting when it comes to the War in Iraq.
When the WMD weren't found.. then the Bush Administration along with the FoX News and others kept spouting off 'human rights' issues as a major factor for invading Iraq... particularly Kurds that died at the hands of Saddam.
However, Turkey has slaughtered significantly more Kurds than Iraq ever has.. and Kurds even today still have significantly much more to worry about from Turks in Turkey than Iraqis in Iraq. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
Turkey is interesting when it comes to the War in Iraq.
When the WMD weren't found.. then the Bush Administration along with the FoX News and others kept spouting off 'human rights' issues as a major factor for invading Iraq... particularly Kurds that died at the hands of Saddam.
However, Turkey has slaughtered significantly more Kurds than Iraq ever has.. and Kurds even today still have significantly much more to worry about from Turks in Turkey than Iraqis in Iraq. |
Dude, it was all a lie. You got that, right? We can't believe anything we have been told about this war. |
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cwemory
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Location: Gunpo, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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The last anchor of stability
Mark Lattimer
guardian.co.uk/
A Turkish invasion at the northern border would compound Iraq's tragedy - Kurdistan is the only area where relative security prevails.
"As soldiers, we are ready," Turkey's chief of staff General Buyukanit said yesterday, as he sent more tanks to Iraq's northern border. He meant it to provoke Turkey's parliament to approve military action against Turkish separatist rebels of the PKK (Kurdistan Workers' party) hiding in Iraq and to give a bloody nose to Iraqi Kurdistan, whose growing autonomy Turkish nationalists watch with anger.
But it also presented a fundamental challenge to the US and the multinational force in Iraq, whose mandate entrusts it with "the maintenance of security and stability", including "protecting the territory of Iraq".
Reeling from recent bombings in Ankara and Marmaris, blamed on separatists, Turkey has legitimate security concerns. It has also expressed solidarity with the Turkmen community within Iraq, who like other Iraqi minorities have suffered killings and death threats in the current conflict. But Turkey's very public military manoeuvres yesterday had little to do with protecting Turkey or the Iraqi Turkmen and everything to do with mustering nationalist support in the upcoming Turkish elections.
For one thing, sending the tanks over the border into Iraq is unlikely to score quick gains against Kurdish militias based in the mountains, particularly if the Iraqi peshmerga become engaged in defending their territory. It may even be counted a success by the PKK diehards. Renewed state repression of Turkey's Kurds would certainly enable them to rebuild popular support for armed resistance and would also endanger Turkey's bid for EU accession.
Most immediately, an invasion would compound Iraq's tragedy. The chief of staff's latest bout of sabre-rattling may have been a calculated reaction to the announcement this week that the multinational force in Iraq was handing over formal control of the three northern Iraqi governorates to the Kurdistan regional government. But in practice, the Kurdish security forces have long been in control, not just since 2003 but before, when Kurdish peshmerga supplied the ground deterrent to Saddam Hussein's forces under the protection of a "no-fly zone" imposed by US and allied forces.
Although there have been attacks, such as two major bombings in Erbil last month, Kurdistan is the only area of Iraq where relative security prevails. Within the KRG borders the level of sectarian tension is comparatively low and the men at the ubiquitous checkpoints are disciplined and thorough.
There is one other difference. You don't see any American or British troops. The Americans are here of course, in the lobby of the Sheraton Hotel in Erbil or at the prison fortress of Suse on the Dukan-Suleimanieh road, whose vast battlements incarcerate an ever-growing number of detainees from across Iraq. But when I asked a Kurdish minister about the absence of multinational forces on patrol, he explained that the only international troops on regular duty in Kurdistan were a unit of South Koreans. "The Koreans are here to guard the UN - and the peshmerga guard the Koreans." I smiled at the joke and at his national pride. But the next day I paid my first visit to the UN compound and found it inside four concentric rings of security. On the inside was a unit of Fijian police, then a series of two checkpoints manned by nervous Korean soldiers and on the perimeter, guarding the whole, three smiling Kurds.
In fact, security in Kurdistan, arguably the most ethnically and religiously diverse of all Iraq's regions, relies less on the prowess of the peshmerga than on an effective, albeit imperfect, accommodation between different groups - Kurds, Turkmen and Assyrians, as well as Arabs. The different communities are present in the Kurdistan national assembly, sometimes representing their own political parties and sometimes on the ticket of one of the Kurdish parties, and their cultural centres are visible in the major towns.
This is not to say that there are not serious human rights concerns. In April in Sulaymanieh I saw a group of Iraqi journalists, lawyers and government employees grill the Kurdish human rights minister, and they gave him a hard time on everything from corruption to secret prisons. The Turkmen and other minorities in Iraq in particular need strong and committed advocates. But the threat of a Turkish invasion will only provoke Kurdish paranoia about Turkmen nationalism.
The US has repeatedly condemned Iranian and Syrian interference in Iraq but its response to the rising threats of Turkish invasion has been remarkably low key. This in itself is probably not such a bad thing, given the overheated rhetoric engaged in both by Turkish leaders and by the KRG's President Barzani. But the language of diplomacy should not obscure the starkness of the choice now facing the US and the multinational force: either rein in the Turkish military or risk losing the one anchor of stability left in Iraq. |
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/mark_lattimer/2007/06/the_last_anchor_of_stability.html |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
Turkey is interesting when it comes to the War in Iraq.
When the WMD weren't found.. then the Bush Administration along with the FoX News and others kept spouting off 'human rights' issues as a major factor for invading Iraq... particularly Kurds that died at the hands of Saddam.
However, Turkey has slaughtered significantly more Kurds than Iraq ever has.. and Kurds even today still have significantly much more to worry about from Turks in Turkey than Iraqis in Iraq. |
Your post sounds like a Moveon.com talking point and it is completely inaccurate.
Turkey killed more Kurds than Saddam? Certainly not since Saddam came to power they didn't. Please note Iraqi Kurds fled to Turkey and not the other way around. Why was that?Turkey didn't even execute the leader of the PKK after they caught him Can you show me someone in Iraq who opposed Saddam in public and lived to tell about it? In fact according to the observer human rights index when the scores were not adjusted for economic issues Saddam's Iraq was the worst in the entire world- I mean even worse than North Korea. There is no comparison between Turkeys human rights record and that of Saddam's Iraq.
Thanks for your time.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:39 am; edited 2 times in total |
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matthews_world
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| Plan on Korea's Zaytun Unit to get out of Kurdish territory if they do happen to attack! |
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Woland
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:54 am Post subject: |
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A big part of the Turkish military's posturing is election year politics; this is a way to put pressure on a government they don't like and hopefully, bring up support for secular opposition parties. My bet is that there won't be an invasion of Iraq by the Turkish army.
Turks do have a reason to be upset with the situation in Iraq; the PKK has been emboldened and attacks within Turkey are on the rise, including the bombing a week or so ago in Ankara.
Turkish governments have historically treated the Kurds badly, but that has changed in many ways in recent years, especially under the current government. The leading Iraqi Kurdish parties have also long opposed the PKK and certainly do not want them getting a solid position in Iraq. The PKK is a nasty, thuggish bunch, which victimizes more Kurds who don't want to live under their rule than they do Turks. |
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Vicissitude
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Location: Chef School
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:24 am Post subject: |
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I knew this story wasn't over:
| Quote: |
Turkey shells rebels in northern Iraq By SELCAN HACAOGLU, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 14 minutes ago
Turkey is shelling suspected Kurdish rebel camps across the border in northern Iraq, a newspaper reported Wednesday, but the government appeared unlikely to move toward sending ground troops until next week.
A member of the governing Justice and Development Party said a request for parliamentary approval for a cross-border ground offensive was unlikely to come to the floor before the end of a four-day religious holiday on Sunday. He asked not to be named because he was not authorized to speak to reporters.
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told reporters that preparations for the parliamentary authorization were under way but he did not say when a motion could reach the floor.
A large-scale military incursion would disrupt one of the few relatively peaceful areas of Iraq and jeopardize Turkey's ties with the United States, which has urged Ankara not to take unilateral steps.
The Turkish military launched a major offensive on its side of the border this week in response to more than a week of deadly attacks in southeastern Turkey by the Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK.
Turkish troops targeting the guerrillas' suspected escape routes in mountainous areas in Sirnak province have "squeezed" a group of about 80 rebels on Mt. Gabar, in Sirnak, the Hurriyet newspaper reported. Escape routes were being bombed by helicopter gunships while transport helicopters were airlifting special commando units to strategic points.
Turkish troops were also shelling suspected PKK camps in the regions of Kanimasa, Nazdur and Sinath, in northern Iraq, from positions in Turkey's Hakkari province, just across the border, Hurriyet reported. Tanks were positioned near the town of Silopi, in Sirnak province, the paper said.
The paper said the government would impose an information blackout on its preparations for a possible cross-border offensive.
In the event that parliament gives its approval, the military could choose to immediately launch an operation or wait to see if the United States and its allies, jolted by the Turkish action, decide to crack down on the rebels.
Turkey conducted two dozen large-scale incursions into Iraq between the late 1980s and 1997. The last such operation, in 1997, involved tens of thousands of troops and government-paid village guards.
Other punitive measure at Turkey's disposal including cutting electricity supplies and closing the border with Iraq |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071010/ap_on_re_mi_ea/turkey_kurds&printer=1;_ylt=AiQWig9Y71ojmghHKuMbtc8UewgF
I smell trouble with this one. |
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The Perfect Cup of Coffee
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: TURKEY wants to Invade Iraq: USA says NO WAY! |
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| Vicissitude wrote: |
Questions:
1.) WILL Turkey invade Iraq?
a.) If so, how will the US military respond?
b.) If so, how will the world community respond?
c.) If so, how will the Iraqi people respond, including the Kurds?
d.) If so, how will Iran respond?
e.) If so, will the USA become the scapegoat for what Turkey does?
f.) If so, how will terrorists and insurgents respond?
2.) How does this change the perception that the USA is the sole and only "invader" of Iraq when we have other countries such as Turkey that clearly would ALSO like to invade? |
Answer to Question 1, NO. Answers to a) thru f), irrelevant. Answer to Question 2, not much in perception, the image of the US is pretty much farked nowadays re: Iraq. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| What's that got to do with the article? How does that answer any of the questions asked? |
What you are basically dealing with is someone from the far left.......thats how they communicate.
dmbfan |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| When I logged in this morning, Yahoo had an article about Congress considering a resolution labelling Armenian deaths ca WWI genocide. I wondered why Congress was doing that NOW. This story explains it. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Dude, it was all a lie. You got that, right? We can't believe anything we have been told about this war. |
Yes, basically all the far left loonies are lying.....good call!
Now, here is a daily dose.
This is taken from the book, 'Saddam's Secrets', written by Georges Sada....who was Saddam' former #2 guy.
Page 252...
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Weapons of Mass Denial.
Since none of the information has been made public, there's been a feeding frenzy in the media for years now, coming particularly from opponents of the Bush administration, claiming that there never were or could have been WMD in Iraq. This is not true, but I've often wondered why this informaiotn hasn't appeared in the media. Why has it been withheld? The Israelis have not hesitated to talk about it. Isreal's intelligence service, the Mossad, is notorisously well informed about military and paramilitary operations in the Middle East, and they've said repeatedly that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. They have also said that some of those weapons were transfered to contries in the region.
The Israeili Army and Air fRoce have taken military action against arms traffickers and terrorists, and they've intervened to stop arms smugglers and drug runners who are implicated in terrorist operations in some of these countries. But the Americans who know what actually happened in Iraq and how Saddam managed to hide these weapons, have not as yet been willing to speak publicly, about the WMD's and what became of them. As a result, those who oppose the war in Iraq have dominated media accounts, claiming they never existed.
When I speak here about weapons of mass destruction, I am referring to the biological, chemical, and nuclear easpons that Saddam had built or was trying to build. Everyone in the international arms community knew that Saddam had them and that he was spending like a sailor to buy more In a July 2003 interview on CNN, former President Bill Clinton said, "People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghansistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted-for stocks of biological and chemical weapons"
The White House knew Saddam was armed and dangerous, and the international community knew from past experience that if Saddam had WMD's he would not hesitate to use them-at at time place of his choosing. Madaline Albright, whowas secretary of state during the Clinton administration, said in Februrary 1998 ...Iraq is a long way from (here), but what happens there matters a great deal here. Fro the risks that the leaders of the rogue state will use nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest secruity threat we face".
Later that same year, Representative Nancy Pelosi said, "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weaons of mass destruction technology, which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process There are memebers fo the Democratic Pary in America who oppose the war today who understood the risks involved in Saddam's possession of WMD's and said much at the time. President Clinton's National Security Adviser, Sandy Berger, warned......"He will use those weapons of mass desctruction again, as he has ten times since 1983". So, the fact that WMD's were present was never a secret. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| bump |
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