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cosmicgirlie
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: Mike Gravel |
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I'm not American but I've been following both the Rep and Dem debates with interest as a neighbour to the north I'd like to know who is going to be the next Prez.
On the Dem side of the debates I think there's a bit of a Ron Paul long shot, him being Mike Gravel......I've done a bit of research as of late online too to see what the debates are online regarding this man....seems there is a big push for Ron Paul vs Mike Gravel for Prez.....
Interesting perspective he has--but is America ready to vote for an Alaskan president?? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Ron Paul and Mike Gravel are both populists and they agree a lot on a lot of subjects especially on US foreign policy. But neither of them is in tune with the American electorate any more than Nader is.
I think that they ought to form their own party for candidates with that kind of view. They could invite Nader and Kununich too if they want.
They would be lucky to draw 3% of the vote. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Nader Redux: Should Dems Fear Mike Gravel?
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| Commenting that his fellow candidates "frightened" him because they refused to take the nuclear option off the table with regard to Iran, he then confronted Obama with the question, "Tell me, Barack, who do you want to nuke?" |
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cwemory
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Location: Gunpo, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| i'm not sure about his plan to eliminate income tax and replace it with a national sales tax. That doesn't seem particularly progressive to me. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Gravel doesn't have much of a clue about today's policy problems. He babbles what he thinks (?) is some left wing populist crap and sometimes accidentally says something that makes sense, sort of.
Kucinich (sp?) actually is right on a lot of things, but is way too La La Land new age to go anywhere in the race. He is the only one who has had the courage to articulate the need for a single payer health care system for the U.S. The rest are too beholden to the insurance and drug interests.
I think the best candidate by far, in terms of honesty, balance and experience is Richardson.
One of the major problems in US politics is that "left" and "right" seem to be the only meaningful distinctions available- and they are in fact meaningless. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
| Kucinich (sp?) actually is right on a lot of things, but is way too La La Land new age to go anywhere in the race. He is the only one who has had the courage to articulate the need for a single payer health care system for the U.S. The rest are too beholden to the insurance and drug interests. |
Definetely right on that.
I'm watching the Democratic Debates right now.. when he mentioned that.. he was right on.. to a lot of applause.
I'm kind of in shock that NONE of the other Democratic candidates are discussing getting rid of the entire profit-oriented healthcare insurance industry we got right now.
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Regarding Gravel.. I'm watching him right now.. he just says random comments whenever he hears clapping. Everyone is actually discussing plans.. Gravel just throws out quips and gets hyped up about stuff without any plans or facts.
Gravel would make a real wacky President.. real wacky.
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Richardson has had few if any questions thrown his way so far in the debate (I'm about two-thirds through it). |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
Regarding Gravel.. I'm watching him right now.. he just says random comments whenever he hears clapping. Everyone is actually discussing plans.. Gravel just throws out quips and gets hyped up about stuff without any plans or facts.
Gravel would make a real wacky President.. real wacky.
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R. S. Refugee
Yep |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:05 am Post subject: |
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Gravel is clueless.
He just proposed that anyone who does any public service or joins the military.. for every 1 year he/she serves, he/she should get 4 years of college for free.
AmericaCorps already have a similar system of working for free college.. plus military definetely gives huge college incentives for the enlisted.
So he basically spouted off something he seemed to think was genius that has already existed for years and years.
Can't believe he got claps for that. |
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crazy_arcade
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:31 am Post subject: |
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as a Canadian,
I believe it is my duty to boycot American politics. *beep* that fucking noise. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
| Gravel doesn't have much of a clue about today's policy problems. |
He's old. I mean so old that even I would say he's old, and I'm old. That didn't stop Reagan, of course. Didn't stop Ronnie from running, didn't stop him from winning. Didn't stop Ronnie from changing the course of American political history ... um, and not for the better, IMHO. But, hey, it happened once - and if ever there was a time when American political history needed changing.
Thing is, he's the only one who isn't talking about timetables and benchmarks. He's talking about what we really want, which is to end this thing. End it now.
Um, just wondering, what's so bad about a leader who will get up and say to other countries, "Hey, I won't bomb you if you don't bomb me?" It's an approach that has gotten me out of many a bar fight, by the way ...
Last edited by The Bobster on Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Um, just wondering, what's so bad about a leader who will lget up and say to other countries, "Hey, I won't bomb you if you don't bomb me?" It's an approach that has gotten me out of many a bar fight, by the way ... |
that sounds great remember there would have been no war if Saddam had given up his war.
All the Baathists , the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists have to do is give up their war. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
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Um, just wondering, what's so bad about a leader who will lget up and say to other countries, "Hey, I won't bomb you if you don't bomb me?" It's an approach that has gotten me out of many a bar fight, by the way ... |
that sounds great remember there would have been no war if Saddam had given up his war.
All the Baathists , the Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists have to do is give up their war. |
That was the problem with Reagan and is the problem with Bush- a complete lack of complex knowledge and thinking. Everything you need to know you learned in Kindergarten? I don't think so. Populists are all of that mold- including Gravel. Dice all politics up into neat little soundbites, make all conflict sound like interpersonal squabbles on the playground, or in the bar, and present simplistic solutions. People are comforted by that sort of pablum because it is comfortable to think that things like the conflicts in the Middle East, ad nauseum, can be reduced to a fight over the backyard fence. At the end of the day, you can sit with your neighbor and laugh at how silly your squabble was. Sunny day American hoo ha. What did Reagan say- "It is morning in America"? Yeah, right. |
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The Hammer
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ullungdo 37.5 N, 130.9 E, altitude : 223 m
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: |
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I agree, it is good to have him up there to tell the truth and to depants the smug insiders. But if you listen to his last comments on the tape, you can he him going off in 8 directions at once, and none of them in response to the question.
He lost me there- I heard that debate and he left me scratching my head. His ideas sound like he was sitting with a bunch of left wingers and libertarians over a joint and some beer holed up in a tavern at -40 degrees. (I know about that stuff- I had a friend in the Alaska legislature when marijuana was (briefly) decriminalized in the state. He had hilarious stories about exactly sitting in bars in Juneau, high and drinking beers, and discussing the legislation with the libertarians. He was a lefty, of course.
The problems that have been created in this country and the world are too critical to be solved over beers in a bar. We need an experienced statesman or woman, who is not overly beholden to the interest groups. The only one that meets both criteria of statesman and not beholden is Richardson. He is not as progressive as I would like, but we need sound, experienced statesmanship right now, not more ideological divide. Things are just that critical. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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desultude
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| That was the problem with Reagan and is the problem with Bush- a complete lack of complex knowledge and thinking. Everything you need to know you learned in Kindergarten? I don't think so. Populists are all of that mold- including Gravel. Dice all politics up into neat little soundbites, make all conflict sound like interpersonal squabbles on the playground, or in the bar, and present simplistic solutions. People are comforted by that sort of pablum (...) |
Thanks anyway but I don't want to be comforted, and proridge is not on menu. I'm hungry for raw meat. And I want it cut to the bone. I'm disturbed aleady, and I'll be happy to stay that way for a while untl the rest of us get as disturbed as we need to be.
Haven't seen anything about this guy to make me think he's the one to win. Honestly, I don't think he does, either. He doesn't have the cred all the other ones do. BUT, I think he's saying what the people want. With even a little bit of luck, he might get the other candidates to at least talk about whatis needed.
End this thing. End it now. Congress could do it today, just by passing a bill that says BushCheney&Co can't write any more checks for this particular project. Congress doesn't want to do that, even though the last congressional election sent them the message it's what the voters want.
Maybe someone like Gravel will help the other candidates move where they need to go. I'm hoping he keeps opening his mouth. |
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