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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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 Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| I don't know but he makes a decent slamma...ObammaSlamma...one of my favorites bottled cocktails, that is |
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Doutdes
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Yes, I have and yes I know he wears his religion on his sleeve. That's part of what irks me too. When a white politician does as much, he's seen as threatening by agnostics, atheists and the Left or at the very least insincere. But oh, Lordy, when a black man says it, we must all stand up, lock arms, and since "We Shall Overcome." |
It doesn't have anything to do with race. Agnostics and atheists on the left are concerned about his faith. However, we're much more accomadating to people who don't use the Bible to spread hate. But to you, it seems, everything has to do with race.
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King was the real deal. Obama is not. The only thing audacious about his hope is that he believes he has a corner on the market.
Black moral authority went out the window the first time Jesse Jackson opened his trap about Jews in 1984 (Incidentally, a few weeks before I voted for Jackson after serving in his campaign). And all semblance of authority went right out the window with the black reaction to O.J. Simpson's verdict. The law students at Howard University, for instance, we're hoopin' it up after that one. |
All black moral authority is gone, so Obama cannot act like he has any moral authority. You are messed up. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Doutdes doubted:
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| It doesn't have anything to do with race. Agnostics and atheists on the left are concerned about his faith. However, we're much more accomadating to people who don't use the Bible to spread hate. But to you, it seems, everything has to do with race. |
Bullroar and poppco-ck. It has everything to do with his race although of course it shouldn't, which is the thrust of my argument. You fail to see that essential point. So if a die-hard conservative uses the Bible in his speeches without a hint of ill-will, that would be o.k. with you? Yeah, right, Pedro.
Who's "we," by the way? Are you in the habit of speaking as royalty or for others of your ideological bent?
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| All black moral authority is gone, so Obama cannot act like he has any moral authority. You are messed up. |
No, a less-than-one-term senator cannot speak with moral authority. Sorry to crush your messianic perceptions. I realize that liberals believe they have a prior claim to compassion but that doesn't mean it's actually so.
Obama is free to speak for himself but he has no business speaking for all blacks. That's not only audacious, it's the heigth of arrogance. |
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Doutdes
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Bullroar and poppco-ck. It has everything to do with his race although of course it shouldn't, which is the thrust of my argument. |
And the thrust of your argument comes down to "because I said so." Just because you can't get over the fact that he's black, doesn't mean others can't.
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| You fail to see that essential point. So if a die-hard conservative uses the Bible in his speeches without a hint of ill-will, that would be o.k. with you? Yeah, right, Pedro. |
Yes, it's okay. It happens all the time. All the ****ing time. You can't get through a speech from Republican or Democratic presidential front runners without them kissing a baby's cheeck and God's puckered ***hole. However, public figures are not reborn before each and every speech. When a public figures damns homosexuals on Thursday and talks about feeding the poor on Friday, it's not as if we liberal agnostics and athiests forget everything the person said on Thursday.
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| Who's "we," by the way? Are you in the habit of speaking as royalty or for others of your ideological bent? |
Yes, I'm speaking for others of my ideological bent. Not all of them, but certainly the many that I have spoken and written to. In fact, they have proclaimed me King of Agnostics and Athiests by divine decree. That gives me a two fold reason to use we instead of I. And if you keep on trying to waste my time on stupid little side arguments, I might even provide a royal decree, which is binding upon all liberal athiests and agnostics, to laugh at you.
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| No, a less-than-one-term senator cannot speak with moral authority. Sorry to crush your messianic perceptions. I realize that liberals believe they have a prior claim to compassion but that doesn't mean it's actually so. |
So you're saying that the more time spent in politics increases one's moral authority. I'm from the Midwest and we (midwesterners) tend to think politics corrupts, not purifies, the human soul. Age and race or poor predictors moral authority. The old can be as cruel with their wisdom as much as the young can with their ignorance. And for everyone but you, race doesn't factor in morality. I'm thinking that the only reason you think Obama is immoral is because he's black and liberal. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Doutdes wrote:
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| I'm thinking that the only reason you think Obama is immoral is because he's black and liberal. |
Nice the way you reduce all of my reasoning to racist accusations. You sound like Al Sharpton during the Tawana Brawley fiasco. That tactic gets tiresome.
No, the fact that he is black is not the issue, strive as you might to make it so that you can dismiss my arguments out-of-hand.
If Colin Powell were running, I'd vote for him because he's an American first and a black second. The opposite is true of Obama despite his rhetoric to the contrary, make no bones about it.
I'm originally from the Midwest, too, so I guess that deflates your comments on politicians, eh?
Next time you post, try to actually address my concerns. Then you might have some credibility. |
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Doutdes
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
No, the fact that he is black is not the issue, strive as you might to make it so that you can dismiss my arguments out-of-hand.
If Colin Powell were running, I'd vote for him because he's an American first and a black second. The opposite is true of Obama despite his rhetoric to the contrary, make no bones about it. |
So you won't vote for Obama because he's black first and an American second (the opposite of Colin Powell). And how does this further your argument that you're not a racist. You're basically saying that Obama is more loyal to blacks in America than all Americans. Yet the original speech you reference doesn't give that impression. When Obama talks about solutions, those solutions deal with poverty, not race relations.
You seem to think if a black person is liberal (meaning they think racism exists, that the government should help poor people, that there are underlying problems that cause riots other than black are bad people), then they are more loyal to blacks than Americans.
It's racist drivel. You say it's not, but you always have to come back to Obama's race. No one is forcing you to talk about it. You're just obsessed that he's black and liberal. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Doutdes wrote: |
You seem to think if a black person is liberal (meaning they think racism exists, that the government should help poor people, that there are underlying problems that cause riots other than black are bad people), then they are more loyal to blacks than Americans.
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So, only liberals (using the American meaning of that term) think racism exists, government should help poor people and blacks are inherently bad people? |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Doutdes:
As a liberal, I'm surprised you don't show greater sensitivity about essentializing others. Oh, wait, I forgot: it's o.k. in your playbook to essentialize conservatives (i.e, we're all closet racists).
Let me try to say it again as plainly as I can:
ANY person who runs for the highest office in the land and continually makes privileged references to his own ethnic or racial group is circumspect in my book.
Now, I'll bet you your meager monthly salary that if a Republican candidate spoke of a white backlash you would cry foul before the ink was dry on the first press run.
Try as you might to paint me a racist won't make it so.
Again, you still haven't addressed the concerns expressed in my original post. You're obfuscating as you beat a hasty retreat, rhetorically speaking of course.
Obama explicitly and repeatedly spoke of a quiet riot among blacks, a simmering of the racial pot in the inner city. Now aside from the moral affront that deprived blacks often feel they are entitled to resort to violence (unlike other minorities) to get what they want, how can you not characterize his speech as race-baiting?
It isn't an issue of loyalty as much as expediency. Playing the race card, as Obama did, is convenient for his political maneuvering. Indeed, if he was really loyal to African Americans, he wouldn't attempt to speak for all of them.
Don't you see that as a tad bit presumptuous if not outright arrogant?
Obama will not win the nomination if he continues down this road and he will lick his wounds until he realizes that the days of race-baiting in American national politics are over. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:27 am Post subject: |
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"Playing the race card, as Obama did, is convenient for his political maneuvering."
But of course, everything that all politicians do is convenient for their political maneuvering. |
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cosmo
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| But of course, everything that all politicians do is convenient for their political maneuvering. |
This is a valid point. It reminds me of politicians or groups that criticize others for having "political reasons" or "political motivations".
For example, Political Group A said Political Group B did action XYZ "for political reasons".
It's silly, because every public action a politician does is political. |
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cangel
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: Jeonju, S. Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| I will NOT vote for Obama, Just because he says what people want to hear does not mean he has the skills to be the CEO of t he most powerful nation the world has ever seen. The man's still wet behind the ears for Christ's sake... |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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You tell 'em, Mr. Candy.
Your opinion carries a lot of "weight" around here.  |
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Doutdes
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:49 am Post subject: |
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I'd have an easier time thinking that you're not racist if you didn't write like one. Everytime you deny it, you include another racist gem in your response.
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Now aside from the moral affront that deprived blacks often feel they are entitled to resort to violence (unlike other minorities) to get what they want, how can you not characterize his speech as race-baiting? |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Doutdes wrote:
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| I'd have an easier time thinking that you're not racist if you didn't write like one. Everytime you deny it, you include another racist gem in your response |
First off, this might come as a jolt to your liberal sensibilities, but I don't give a rat's azz whether you think I'm a racist or not. I don't need your approval.
Many black leaders come very close to justifying violent backlashes from their community on the grounds that it's the result of pent up frustration with discrimination. My point, which you missed of course, is that no leader of any other minority community would even begin to make such a causal link.
Give up the ghost, bruddah. You're not making time with me. And I have no time for those who defend the indefensible, believing the ends justify the means. |
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cangel
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: Jeonju, S. Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| I've always been an equal opportunity discriminator. I don't care where you're from, what color you are, what your religion is... If you're an @sshole, you're an @sshole... That includes all you inbred crackers out there... |
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