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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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 Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| Sleepy in Seoul wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Sleepy in Seoul wrote: |
| When Americans criticise other countries of 'historical amnesia', the words kettle, pot, calling and black come to mind very quickly. |
really what do you have in mind? |
Well, for a start the vitriol that poured out of the American media and some of the politicians about the French after the 11/9 attack. A fine thanks for French assistance during the American War of Independence. |
Sometimes things that happened 230 years ago are forgotten or brushed aside. How many French troops are currently stationed on US soil protecting it from an ongoing war? |
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Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Beej wrote: |
| Sometimes things that happened 230 years ago are forgotten or brushed aside. How many French troops are currently stationed on US soil protecting it from an ongoing war? |
But should it be forgotten? Should people and/or countries only respect and honour actions performed at the moment or in the very recent past? Was the French action all those years ago so trivial as to be simply brushed aside now, using the excuse that 'well, it was a long time ago and a lot of people have forgotten about it, so now it isn't important'? |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Sleepy in Seoul wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| Sometimes things that happened 230 years ago are forgotten or brushed aside. How many French troops are currently stationed on US soil protecting it from an ongoing war? |
But should it be forgotten? Should people and/or countries only respect and honour actions performed at the moment or in the very recent past? Was the French action all those years ago so trivial as to be simply brushed aside now, using the excuse that 'well, it was a long time ago and a lot of people have forgotten about it, so now it isn't important'? |
What you say is true, but what Beej says is true also. The French aren't currently spending ridiculous amounts of money maintaining a force of nearly 40,000 troops on foreign soil indefinitely to protect them from an insane dictator who fancies himself a god. Also, 230 years ago is much longer than 50 years. Many of the political leaders of South Korea were either alive during the Korean war or born just after. Either way they would have witnessed first hand the devastation that was wrought by the North's invasion. For them to turn a blind eye to the anti-Americanism that grows in their country and try to play both sides, to even encourage it as some have done, is truly shameful.
-S- |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Sleepy in Seoul wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Sleepy in Seoul wrote: |
| When Americans criticise other countries of 'historical amnesia', the words kettle, pot, calling and black come to mind very quickly. |
really what do you have in mind? |
Well, for a start the vitriol that poured out of the American media and some of the politicians about the French after the 11/9 attack. A fine thanks for French assistance during the American War of Independence. |
cause the French were so friendly with Saddam and cause they let the top terrorists from Hizzbollah go free from their nation and a whole lot of other stuff.
Just cause the French helped the US 200 years before does not make them immune from criticism. |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Sleepy in Seoul wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
| Sometimes things that happened 230 years ago are forgotten or brushed aside. How many French troops are currently stationed on US soil protecting it from an ongoing war? |
But should it be forgotten? Should people and/or countries only respect and honour actions performed at the moment or in the very recent past? Was the French action all those years ago so trivial as to be simply brushed aside now, using the excuse that 'well, it was a long time ago and a lot of people have forgotten about it, so now it isn't important'? |
Actually its not forgotten. I was taught about the French role in the Revolutionary War and its still taught in American schools today.
In Korean schools these days the kids are taught that America started and/or encouraged the Korean War and 50 years of occupation to keep Korea weak because the US and the rest of the world fear Koreas power.
As regards to the French issue, antiamericanism was rife there even before Bush took office. Maybe they are the ones who dont rememeber WWI and WWII. |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| BeeJ wrote: |
| In Korean schools these days the kids are taught that America started and/or encouraged the Korean War and 50 years of occupation to keep Korea weak because the US and the rest of the world fear Koreas power. |
I've heard the same thing from my anti-American K-teachers and manay others and it is really disgusting.
Maybe it time that our troops pack and leave Korea and cause another Korean war. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe it time that our troops pack and leave Korea and cause another Korean war.
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Ex-pats have been fantasizing about that on this board since at least the "hate fest of 2002", and will probably be fantasizing about it in another five years.
But if it was gonna happen, it would have happened by now. As I have pointed out over and over again, the American army is not a charity operation, and if the boys in DC thought that there was no strategic interest in being here, they'd be gone in a second. But the geopolitical situation on the peninsula is pretty much the same as it's always been, at since at least the end of the cold war. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Predictions. Ten years from now, in 2017...
-the Uri Party will be telling starry-eyed Korean youth that if we only treat North Korea a little nicer, they will soon see the light and join hands for a peninsula-wide singing of Arirang.
-the GNP will be denouncing Uri as irresponsible idealists, and saying that a return to the old-style practice of bashing South Korean college kids over the head is the best way to get NK to change its ways.
-the expats on Dave's will be all hepped up anticipating that as soon as footage of the latest anti-American protest in Seoul hits the US airwaves, an outraged congress will withdraw the troops and leave greedy hagwon owners to the mercy of marauding Norks.
-The Norks will be issuing statements saying that South Korea's refusal to send a truckload of caviar to Kim Jong Il's mansion is an insurmountable impediment to reunifiction. |
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charlieDD
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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After the French assisted in the American revolution, did they stick around to make sure the fledgling new nation would have some breathing room in which it could grow strong before left on its own?
And did the French establish the basic education, medical, social, governmental and religious infrastuctures that would help the new country achieve this?
And did the French people adopt tens of thousands American orphans and continue to do so two generations later and over fifty years after the war was over?
And did the French school children collect money in little shoe boxes on their teachers' desks - -- marked "Help Relieve Poverty in America" - - with pictures of American children in misery - - - for the Red Cross, the Salvation Army and other relief and charitable organizations to help alleviate the suffering of millions left in poverty by the war and for some twenty-five years after for those still struggling to survive while the new country struggled to find its economic footing?
And did the French open their country to over a million American immigrants seeking a better life and opportunity?
And did the French educate another million, tens of thousands a year, allowing many to teach at universities as graduate and post-graduate students and to work full time jobs as professional training experience with private sector employers, take green cards and eventually citizenship?
Historical anmesia is relative..
Last edited by charlieDD on Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| charlieDD wrote: |
After the French assisted in the American revolution, did they stick around to make sure the fledgling new nation would have some breathing room in which it could grow strong before left on its own?
... ... |
No. Of course not.
That would have been tantamount to an occupation.
BTW, there are not 38,000 US troops here. That figure is now below 29,000 and reducing month-by-month. Their presence here is not altruistic: there are perceived advantages for US interests in maintaing a presence here over and above a deterrent and assistance to the Korean defence in the unlikely event of an invasion. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
No. Of course not.
That would have been tantamount to an occupation.
BTW, there are not 38,000 US troops here. That figure is now below 29,000 and reducing month-by-month. Their presence here is not altruistic: there are perceived advantages for US interests in maintaing a presence here over and above a deterrent and assistance to the Korean defence in the unlikely event of an invasion. |
You think?
American forces no longer need to station our people on bases on the peninsula.
Offshore naval and aviation firepower would screw up North Korea pretty fast. The only thing stopping the American forces from bringing them down is the likely NK artillery bombardment that would be directed at SK once that commenced.
If NK was in the middle of a desert, it would have been lights out for that squad of suckers long ago.
They are holding their 'brethren' hostage. |
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charlieDD
Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
That would have been tantamount to an occupation.
BTW, there are not 38,000 US troops here. That figure is now below 29,000 and reducing month-by-month. Their presence here is not altruistic: there are perceived advantages for US interests in maintaing a presence here over and above a deterrent and assistance to the Korean defence in the unlikely event of an invasion. |
Interestingly, it's the Korean gov't that goes into overdrive trying to assure everyone the Americans are not going to leave them and their special relationship with the Koreans when recently the Americans made some moves to reduce its forces and deploy them away from the DMZ. |
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Sleepy in Seoul
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: Going in ever decreasing circles until I eventually disappear up my own fundament - in NZ
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Just cause the French helped the US 200 years before does not make them immune from criticism. |
Of course not, and neither should it. My point was that the U.S. shouldn't criticise other for doing exactly the same as them. Two quotes for you: Judge not, lest ye be judged and Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
| Beej wrote: |
| As regards to the French issue, antiamericanism was rife there even before Bush took office. Maybe they are the ones who dont rememeber WWI and WWII. |
Do you mean that the French may have forgotten that the U.S. waited for more than two years to join both wars? Letting other countries do the fighting first, turning up just in time for the final flourish, then telling the world that they 'won' the war? Squeezing maximum advantage out of the war for themselves before being forced to fight? Perhaps the problem is that the French remember exactly what happened. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| jajdude wrote: |
Yeah, interesting posts.
Explain it to me very slowly and carefully, 'cause I'm kind of dumb, but why is it so many Koreans dislike America and (apparently) everybody else? |
Seems some American emmisary once brought up the idea of splitting Korea at the 38th parallel. It goes down hill from there.
cbc |
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aarontendo
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Location: Daegu-ish
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| Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| We didn't join in for a long time because they weren't our wars. If Europe wasn't so full of pu$$ies then they'd have taken care of their own business. |
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