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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| There are many qualifications given for spiritual masters (or gurus...) The most important is that they've received the blessings from their spiritual master and purely transmit perfect knowledge (originally coming from God) without any adulteration... |
What means are used to determine the legitimacy of this "perfect knowledge" and, assuming for a moment it isn't the total BS it is, to what extent do they use it to make the world a better place. |
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Rteacher

Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: |
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One would necessarily have to at least theoretically accept the possibility that Krishna is God in order to accept that what He spoke in Bhagavad-gita is perfect transcendental knowledge.
In order to insure that one is receiving the original message of Krishna, it's necessary to hear it from a spiritual master (guru) linked to an authorized disciplic succession coming from Krishna.
Such a spiritual master will only present what Krishna originally spoke as revealed scripture (sastra) and whatever he speaks will be in agreement with what previous saintly persons (sadhus) have spoken...
So the Vedic system of checks-and-balences is referred to as guru-sadhu-sastra, It's elaborately described here:http://www.harekrsna.com/philosophy/gss/gss.htm
As to how this "perfect knowledge" is being implemented to make this a better world, I think that it has positively affected many millions of people who have gotten books published by the Bhaktivedanta Bood Trust (BBT) and have practiced the spiritual techniques recommended for this age.
Hundreds of millions of plates of "prasadam" (vegetarian food prepared as a devotional offering to Krishna) have been distributed by devotees worldwide through Hare Krishna Food for Life and Iskcon Food Relief...
Moreover, many people - as well as animals and the environment - have indirectly benefited from the promotion of vegetarianism...
Although the Vedic scriptures predict that there will be a "Golden Age" of peace and spiritual realization occuring over the next 10,000 years, devotees are generally thought to be materially pessimistic and spiritually optimistic.
The material world is mainly considered to be a place of suffering (regardless of material adjustments that can be made) and we should focus more energy on transfering our consciousness back to the eternally blissful existence available to us in the spiritual universes...
http://guru.krishna.org/Articles/2002/10/008.html |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
The material world is mainly considered to be a place of suffering (regardless of material adjustments that can be made) and we should focus more energy on transfering our consciousness back to the eternally blissful existence available to us in the spiritual universes... |
So, they have "perfect knowledge" but don't use it to help on earth now? Jesus bro, cure herpes or something!
This is one of my biggest problems with religion. Forget about how bad you have it now and instead focus on a (fake) afterlife. This is a very useful structure for power to exploit. |
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arjuna

Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Rteacher wrote: |
The material world is mainly considered to be a place of suffering (regardless of material adjustments that can be made) and we should focus more energy on transfering our consciousness back to the eternally blissful existence available to us in the spiritual universes... |
So, they have "perfect knowledge" but don't use it to help on earth now? Jesus bro, cure herpes or something!
This is one of my biggest problems with religion. Forget about how bad you have it now and instead focus on a (fake) afterlife. This is a very useful structure for power to exploit. |
Whatever you decide to do, happens. Don't blame any other for what you have brought upon yourselves through your choices. If you make a mess, it's your job to clean it up, or to live in the stinking mess. If you want happy, make happy. If you want misery, make misery. Do you know what you want? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Was that question directed at me? |
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arjuna

Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
One would necessarily have to at least theoretically accept the possibility that Krishna is God in order to accept that what He spoke in Bhagavad-gita is perfect transcendental knowledge.
In order to insure that one is receiving the original message of Krishna, it's necessary to hear it from a spiritual master (guru) linked to an authorized disciplic succession coming from Krishna.
Such a spiritual master will only present what Krishna originally spoke as revealed scripture (sastra) and whatever he speaks will be in agreement with what previous saintly persons (sadhus) have spoken... |
All scriptures on Earth are limited by the very fact that they are spoken on Earth. Furthermore, all scriptures are contaminated by lies and half-truths. Finally, all scriptures are rendered useless by worship.
Lineage guarantees nothing. It is time to let go of gurus and stand on your own. No expression is final, and no being is perfect. The universe is an evolution and perfection does not apply to it. |
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arjuna

Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Was that question directed at me? |
If you want it, yes. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| arjuna wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| Was that question directed at me? |
If you want it, yes. |
I'll be ok. |
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arjuna

Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| arjuna wrote: |
| Rteacher wrote: |
One would necessarily have to at least theoretically accept the possibility that Krishna is God in order to accept that what He spoke in Bhagavad-gita is perfect transcendental knowledge.
In order to insure that one is receiving the original message of Krishna, it's necessary to hear it from a spiritual master (guru) linked to an authorized disciplic succession coming from Krishna.
Such a spiritual master will only present what Krishna originally spoke as revealed scripture (sastra) and whatever he speaks will be in agreement with what previous saintly persons (sadhus) have spoken... |
All scriptures on Earth are limited by the very fact that they are spoken on Earth. Furthermore, all scriptures are contaminated by lies and half-truths. Finally, all scriptures are rendered useless by worship.
Lineage guarantees nothing. It is time to let go of gurus and stand on your own. No expression is final, and no being is perfect. The universe is an evolution and perfection does not apply to it. |
Well, ok, relatively speaking, we can speak of perfect knowledge. |
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Rteacher

Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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There is nothing absolute in the material world of relativity, but occasionally the Absolute Person who runs the whole show makes personal appearances (every millenium by Vedic calculation...)
It's true that everything - including disciplic successions and scriptures - can and do get corrupted in time, but they can be put back on track by God's various infinitely complex arrangements.
In the Vedic world view, the material universes, hovering like a distant dark cloud in the spiritual sky, serve the function of being like a gigantic prison for the perfectly harmonious spriritual world.
Like a revolving door, some people are always coming from, and some are going back to the spiritual abode. It is stated that, at any given time, three-fourths of the total number of individual souls are enjoying perfect bliss on the self-effulgent spiritual planets, while one-fourth are suffering (in pursuit of false happiness) in the dark material world...
Although there may be first-class prisoners in a prison who enjoy more priveleges, everyone is still a prisoner, and general conditions are meant to be basically harsh.
And although the pain and misery caused by our ignorance or defiance of the laws of karma are real, death is really a great illusion. The departing conscious person moves on to another body - either material or spiritual.
Once we finally regain our indestructible spiritual bodies, our entire experience in the material world will be vaguely remembered as just a bad dream... |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Location: Seoul, South Korea
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
In Vedic terms, there are four authorized disciplic successions - each with various main branches and sub-branches - that originate with spiritual authorities linked to Krishna at least 5000 years ago.
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who I was initiated by in 1974, is linked to the disciplic succession stemming from Brahma, and including Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (Krishna incarnating as a devotee of Himself about 500 years ago...)
There are many qualifications given for spiritual masters (or gurus...) The most important is that they've received the blessings from their spiritual master and purely transmit perfect knowledge (originally coming from God) without any adulteration...
http://guru.krishna.org/
http://www.harekrsna.com/philosophy/gss/sadhu/sampradayas/brahma/brahma.htm |
Do you actually expect anybody to read this endless spew of crap? |
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Rteacher

Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Only intelligent people (who aren't totally absorbed in materialistic nonsense...)
Some of the articles I link to I don't bother to do more than skim over myself, and some I don't even agree with.
Frankly, I'm also engaged in too much materialistic nonsense, but I try to find some time for higher thinking (without drugs or alcohol... )
And, even if only one person benefits from the information I provide in these kind of posts - which isn't common knowledge - I figure that I've at least done some worthwhile service...
[In case anyone has been keeping score (fairly...) I haven't exactly been intellectually blown away here...] |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Location: Seoul, South Korea
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
[In case anyone has been keeping score (fairly...) I haven't exactly been intellectually blown away here...] |
No, you've just spammed a thread about an unrelated topic that looks to all of us like an invitation to join a crazy cult. |
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Rteacher

Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it's unrelated, and I've been mainly responding to challenging (and usually insulting) posts made by avowed atheists making their own propaganda...
I also don't think that it's "spamming" (although I regularly eat vegetarian spam made by some Korean company ...)
I've been independent of any organization for many years (though I still sincerely believe the essential teachings that I studied when I did belong to one...)
(And at least I'm not a "RACETRAITOR" with apparently nothing better to do than to suppress a valid point of view that harms no one ... ) |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Location: Nearly in NK
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| If God does not exist atheism is much ado about nothing. If he does exist atheism is wrong. Either way it is useless. |
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