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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: Johnson Killed Kennedy redirected post #1 |
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Kennedy post 1
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:30 am Post subject: Kennedy post 1
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fATmzROAs5E
Johnson killed Kennedy.
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valkyrian2
Mod Team
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Kennedy post 1
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regicide wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fATmzROAs5E
Johnson killed Kennedy.
Off topic. Take it there if you want to play.
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Holy crap Batman.
cbc |
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Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| How is this guy not banned yet? |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Smee wrote: |
| How is this guy not banned yet? |
Banned for what? Posting something. Get a grip. You want censorship?
Move to China. |
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Doogie
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Location: Hwaseong City
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Smee wrote: |
| How is this guy not banned yet? |
Agreed, why the heck are there 3 threads about the same thing? Stop wasting everybody's time! |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:53 am Post subject: |
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I think that the videos make a very coherent, compelling case that Lyndon Johnson was at least complicit in the assassination of JFK...
The fact that many posters on these forums apparently lack the brains and/or guts and/or interest to see the truth of this (or any important matter) is not especially surprising... |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
I think that the videos make a very coherent, compelling case that Lyndon Johnson was at least complicit in the assassination of JFK...
The fact that many posters on these forums apparently lack the brains and/or guts and/or interest to see the truth of this (or any important matter) is not especially surprising... |
I have too much interest in this. Its obvious that there is a lack of evidence and has been since it happened. Its also obvious that people will believe what they want to believe whether that be god, leprechauns or vast conspiracies involving thousands of people that have remained secret for decades. People like this do not appreciate logic. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:49 am Post subject: |
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Did you actually watch the three videos? ... There's a lot of evidence presented - including how easy it was for President Johnson to control and suppress evidence from the top - with the help of organizations and interests seriously threatened by the Kennedys, legally, financially, and politically...
These tapes establish connections among major players and murderous thugs linked to Johnson, substantiated by strong testimony from one of LBJ's personal attorneys...
I don't really mean to insult anyone's intelligence - there are plenty of intelligent people on these forums - but there also seems to be too much closed-mindedness (and prejudice) on many issues...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fATmzROAs5E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ObQ1NWvbO0&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAKhkKSwHJM&mode=related&search= |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
Did you actually watch the three videos? ... There's a lot of evidence presented - including how easy it was for President Johnson to control and suppress evidence from the top - with the help of organizations and interests seriously threatened by the Kennedys, legally, financially, and politically...
These tapes establish connections among major players and murderous thugs linked to Johnson, substantiated by strong testimony from one of LBJ's personal attorneys...
I don't really mean to insult anyone's intelligence - there are plenty of intelligent people on these forums - but there also seems to be too much closed-mindedness (and prejudice) on many issues...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fATmzROAs5E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ObQ1NWvbO0&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAKhkKSwHJM&mode=related&search= |
I watched the tapes and I have major problems with them. LBJ is set up as the villain here, but alot of the stuff they say about him, they don't seem to give any evidence for this. There is alot of connections and talk about associates but no proof.
My first wtf moment in these tapes was at 6.25 on part 1. The guy says that a grand jury found Henry B marhall had been murdered rather than suicide. He then goes on to say this(6.25 on tape 1..)
| Quote: |
| which means in simple language, that the grand jury believes Billy Celeste(sp) when he told them that LBJ had ordered Malcom Wallace to kill Henry Marshall |
I can't find anywhere online, where the grand jury says LBJ ordered this guy killed. Now obviously if an autopsy says he was shot 5 times then it wasn't suicide. It doesn't follow directly that LBJ ordered it. Its this kind of thing that really frustrates me.
These tapes present alot of associations and does show how LBJ has motive. But and this is a big but, they do not show much evidence. The fingerprint was the only part that I found the least bit compelling. FBI say its not a match. Could they not go to a third party with this fingerprint? I don't understand why it has to be this guys opinion vs the FBI.
In total very ambiguous reporting. This kind of conspiracy would still need quite alot of people to carry out. Its been 40 yrs, I need better evidence. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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The guy's name is Billie Sol Estes ... He's apparently still living and promoting his book and his own version of events. Apparently, based on this Wikipedia article, he failed to provide evidence that he claimed he had that implicated Johnson and several others in a string of murders...
I really haven't spent much time at all researching JFK conspiracy theories, but I am still very interested in it - probably because I'm from Massachusetts and (as a 9th grader) saw all that shocking political drama unfolding on TV after schools were closed and students sent home...
Here are excerpts from a couple Wikipedia articles to at least give more background to what's being discussed:
In the late 1950s the US Department of Agriculture began controlling the price of cotton, specifying quotas to farmers. This limited overall production and Estes' businesses suffered. He responded by expanding into cotton production himself. Over the next few years he developed a massive fraud, claiming to grow and store cotton that never existed, then using the cotton as collateral for bank loans. During this same period he became involved in Texas state politics and made political contributions to US senator and later Vice President Lyndon Baines Johnson.
On June 3, 1961, Estes' local contact at the Agricultural Stabilization and Conservation Service, Henry Marshall, was found dead in his car (reportedly with five gunshot wounds) on a remote part of his own ranch. Attributing Marshall's death to carbon monoxide poisoning brought about from a hose attached to the exhaust pipe of his car, local Justice of the Peace Lee Farmer ruled Marshall had killed himself and the body was buried without an autopsy. The suicide verdict was later overturned.
On April 4, 1962 Estes' accountant, George Krutilek, was found dead from carbon monoxide poisoning. Krutilek had been questioned by the FBI about Estes the day before.
As a result of these deaths and an investigation into his business practices, on April 5, 1962 Estes and several business associates were indicted by a federal grand jury on 57 counts of fraud. Estes was accused of swindling many investors, banks and the federal government out of at least twenty-four million dollars through false agricultural subsidy claims on cotton production and the use of non-existent supplies of anhydrous ammonia fertilizer as collateral for loans. Two of Estes' associates, Harold Orr and Coleman Wade, were also indicted but died of carbon monoxide poisoning (apparent suicides) before they went to trial. Estes was found guilty of fraud and sentenced to eight years in prison. He was eventually found guilty of additional federal charges and sentenced to fifteen years in prison.
The high-profile case had extensive national press coverage and was the first topic of President John F. Kennedy's press conference on May 17, 1962. As a result of the financial and political scandal, Kennedy apparently began considering dropping Johnson as his running mate in the 1964 election...
After his release from jail and Johnson's death, Estes began making allegations regarding President Johnson. According to the authors of The Men Who Killed Kennedy, Estes claimed to have funneled millions of dollars into Johnson's pockets from the cotton allotment scam. Although some contributions are a matter of record, Johnson denied the bribery charges.
Estes later claimed Johnson was involved in a conspiracy to murder witnesses in the Estes trial as part of a wider conspiracy related to the Kennedy assassination. In 1984 Estes' lawyer Douglas Caddy wrote to the Department of Justice claiming that Estes, Lyndon B. Johnson, Malcolm "Mac" Wallace and Cliff Carter had been involved in the murders of Henry Marshall, George Krutilek, Harold Orr, Ike Rogers and his secretary, Coleman Wade, the president's sister Josefa Johnson, John Kinser and John F. Kennedy. Caddy added, "Mr. Estes is willing to testify that LBJ ordered these killings, and that he transmitted his orders through Cliff Carter to Mac Wallace, who executed the murders."
Estes agreed to provide supporting proof to the FBI, which proffered immunity in exchange but Estes ultimately refused to produce any evidence...
Critics suggest Estes' claims of his involvement in a wide conspiracy involving mass murder and political assassination were motivated by the desire of a convicted felon to deflect responsibility for his own criminal behavior and later as a means of generating publicity for the purpose of selling a book he had written.
As of June 2005 Estes was still actively promoting his book, Billie Sol Estes: A Texas Legend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billie_Sol_Estes
For me, the most impressive testimony on the video was that of the old guy (Nathan Darby, a licenced expert in the field) who strongly asserted that a fresh fingerprint found at the shooter's nest in the Texas School Book Depository Building matched that of "Mac" Wallace...
When the original print was forwarded to the FBI by Dallas police, they reportedly (suspiciously?) sat on it for a duration of 18 months before declaring that it was not a match...
There is more discussion on that topic here: http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/23rd_Issue/breakthru.html
  A handbill circulated on November 21, 1963 in Dallas one day before the assassination of John F. Kennedy...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination#Assassination_theories
Last edited by Rteacher on Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
For me, the most impressive testimony on the video was that of the old guy (Nathan Darby, a licenced expert in the field) who strongly asserted that fingerprint found at the shooter's nest in the Texas School Book Depository Building matched that of "Mac" Wallace...
When the original print was forwarded to the FBI by Dallas police, they reportedly (suspiciously?) sat on it for a duration of 18 months before declaring that it was not a match...
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I can't understand why they didn't give this to a third party to test as well. But yea the fingerprint was the most compelling. The rest of those videos were very fuzzy in the logic and the evidence. There seemed to be alot of "he was friends with guy" so he did it type of reasoning. At some point you need evidence.
| Quote: |
He's apparently still living and promoting his book and his own version of events. Apparently, based on this Wikipedia article, he failed to provide evidence that he said he claimed he had that implicated Johnson and several others in a string of murders...
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I'm not surprised. All these guys have books, alot of ideas and not alot of evidence. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| That one print found on a cardboard box in the TSBD building is actually a crucial piece of evidence. If Darby's analysis is correct (and he states that he would make it his "dying declaration" that the prints matched) then it corroborates much of what Estes claims, and it indicates that the FBI - under Hoover - suppressed evidence that might have implicated LBJ... |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| That one print found on a cardboard box in the TSBD building is actually a crucial piece of evidence. If Darby's analysis is correct (and he states that he would make it his "dying declaration" that the prints matched) then it corroborates much of what Estes claims, and it indicates that the FBI - under Hoover - suppressed evidence that might have implicated LBJ... |
Well it doesn't corroborate much of what he said, it just outs the guy there. It also doesn't indicate that the FBI suppressed evidence as why would they print check Wallace? Darby could be right but they should have had a third party look at it. Why make it a 'this guy vs the FBI' thing? |
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: |
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I believe that many of these guys were rotters. I believe Kennedy was killed in a set-up.
However, I can't believe LBJ ordered the killing of his sister. I'd prefer to believe a President didn't do this, rather than a criminal con artist with a long-term prison history. |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:01 am Post subject: 173 witness express shot sources |
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| JMO wrote: |
| Rteacher wrote: |
I think that the videos make a very coherent, compelling case that Lyndon Johnson was at least complicit in the assassination of JFK...
The fact that many posters on these forums apparently lack the brains and/or guts and/or interest to see the truth of this (or any important matter) is not especially surprising... |
I have too much interest in this. Its obvious that there is a lack of evidence and has been since it happened. Its also obvious that people will believe what they want to believe whether that be god, leprechauns or vast conspiracies involving thousands of people that have remained secret for decades. People like this do not appreciate logic. |
JMO You had said before that eyewitness testimony is unrealable. Alright.
Just take a look at these 173 opinions. All are not pro-conspiracy.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1603 |
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