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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:49 am Post subject: DEMOCRATS DECLARE MILITARY BRASS ARE FAIR GAME |
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Once again the Democratic leadership has shown its true and rather soiled colors. Although I count myself among the growing legion of independent voters, this latest charade is a prime example of why I rarely vote for those on the Left Side of the aisle.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070614/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq
So now the military brass are fair game in the Democrat's desperate take-no-prisoners bid to win the White House next year.
Peter Pace, a man of immense integrity on all accounts coming into the position at Joint Chiefs is suddenly suspect, under question if not under fire. Carl Levin, Chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee evidently feels a sense of personal empowerment and accumulated military insight that allows him to second guess career military commanders in the field. Never mind that he used to refrain from presumptuous tactics himself when it came to the Casey and Petraeus nominations.
Chuck Schumer, the ever smug yet uninformed and self-serving Senator from NYC, had this justification to offer:
| Quote: |
| ...it is our view it really can't happen unless the policy in Iraq changes. It's their view that the policy in Iraq furthers stability in the Middle East, and it's hard to see that happening as things continue to decline, whether it's in Iran, in Syria, in the Israel-Palestinian conflict. |
Memo to Chuck: Syria isn't going to make its terrorist policies in Lebanon on the basis of American actions in Iraq. The Gaza isn't going to become a bastion of Palestinian cooperation either. And Iran had its expansionist agenda firmly in place before the war was even launched.
Even decent-minded liberals opposed to Bush until now were willing to assign blame about the debacle in Iraq where it belonged: at the President's doorstep. Will they now turn back the tide of partisan interference in military policy implementation or take the very low road to exploit Gates' reluctant decision not to bring up Pace for confirmation?
My guess is that this stunt will slip by with nary a note of debate among the Party of the White Flag. For me, it stinks of rotting catfish.
So the bigger question is this:
Do you believe Congress should dictate disapproval of an ongoing conflict by placing pressure on the Pentagon to nominate only those individuals who will lend an ear to their concerns, however uninformed or misdirected they might be? |
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Masta_Don
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Hyehwa-dong, Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: |
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No.
Now about that croynism.... |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Military personnel are not required to follow illegal or immoral orders. Their allegiance is sworn to the United States, not the president. Their responsibility to the president lies solely in the chain of command. It is not a moral obligation. The moral obligation is to the nation. If they are not being candid about the situation in Iraq, they are not fulfilling their duties.
The question is, have they been candid? That, I cannot say with certainty, but I don't have access to the same info the people on the hill do. Given the conditions in Iraq, the quagmire it is and has always been, it's better than 50/50 they haven't been completely candid. If they had, it is hard to believe we would still be in Iraq.
Anyway, if the Dem leadership actually believes the generals are brown nosing with Bush, then they have every right, even the responsibility, to hold them accountable. At least one commander in Iraq has quit the military specifically to be able to speak out against it. This is evidence Pace and Patreaus may not have been as forthcoming to Congress as they should have been. |
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Nicco61
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: North Carolina, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| That being said you have to remember that every O-7 want to become an O-8 and so on and so forth. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Need I remind the general populace of the typical disdain the liberals hold for our men in uniform.
"You know education,
if you make the most of it
you study hard
you do your homework
and you make an effort to be smart
you can do well.
If you don't you get stuck in Iraq."
John F. Kerry, US Sen.(D) MA
"There are all kinds of atrocities,
and I would have to say that yes,
yes, I committed the same kinds of atrocities
that thousands of other soldiers have committed,
in that I took part in shooting in free fire zones.
John F. Kerry, Self Confessed War Criminal (D) MA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fFS8TEMxKI
Sounds like the Dems like to re-open their old wounds.
I don't mind helping a little.
cbc |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| It's not right of congress to question the actions and decisions of the men running the war? |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| It's not right of congress to question the actions and decisions of the men running the war? |
Questions are cool......
"In a time of war, for a leader of a party that says it supports the military, it seems outrageous to be issuing slanders..."
.....slander sucks.
cbc |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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MM2 wrote:
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| It's not right of congress to question the actions and decisions of the men running the war? |
That's the issue I posited. And let's remember the historical context: neither party has done this until now and even the current Democratic leadership is backpeddling.
Harry Reid, who proves weasels can survive in the Nevadan climate, even admitted that the Dems are doing this to seek leverage against Bush. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
Need I remind the general populace of the typical disdain the liberals hold for our men in uniform.
"You know education,
if you make the most of it
you study hard
you do your homework
and you make an effort to be smart
you can do well.
If you don't you get stuck in Iraq."
John F. Kerry, US Sen.(D) MA
"There are all kinds of atrocities,
and I would have to say that yes,
yes, I committed the same kinds of atrocities
that thousands of other soldiers have committed,
in that I took part in shooting in free fire zones.
John F. Kerry, Self Confessed War Criminal (D) MA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fFS8TEMxKI
Sounds like the Dems like to re-open their old wounds.
I don't mind helping a little.
cbc |
Lie, if you must. We "liberals" really don't care. Hell, I know of no liberal who opposed moving into Afghanistan on both grounds of getting Al Queda and humanitarian grounds.
I personally know of no "liberal" who opposed going into Kosovo. Just the opposite.
To repeat: lie, if you must.
As for Kerry, how can you, again misleading, a.k.a. lying, even use that tired "stuck in Iraq" "quote"? You have to be truly, truly stupid to 1. post it as if it were uttered in the way you punctuated it and 2. keep posting it YEARS after it was fully discredited. You well know the quote was partly an aside and a mangled segueway.
Dishonesty is ugly. Don't be dishonest. |
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cosmo
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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00
Last edited by cosmo on Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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cosmo wrote:
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Se, there's a decent trhead going on with useful observations,
and you think it's useful to toss out that stupidty? WTF is wrong with you? |
You didn't expect EFLT to go more than a few weeks of probation on these boards without ranting again?
In fact, it is still up in the air as to whether Kerry made a gaffe. But when Bush does it, you liberals pounce on him like hyenas on carrion, so your indignation rings a little hollow. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| cosmo wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
Lie, if you must. We "liberals" really don't care. Hell, I know of no liberal who opposed moving into Afghanistan on both grounds of getting Al Queda and humanitarian grounds.
I personally know of no "liberal" who opposed going into Kosovo. Just the opposite.
To repeat: lie, if you must.
As for Kerry, how can you, again misleading, a.k.a. lying, even use that tired "stuck in Iraq" "quote"? You have to be truly, truly stupid to 1. post it as if it were uttered in the way you punctuated it and 2. keep posting it YEARS after it was fully discredited. You well know the quote was partly an aside and a mangled segueway.
Dishonesty is ugly. Don't be dishonest. |
Se, there's a decent trhead going on with useful observations,
and you think it's useful to toss out that stupidty? WTF is wrong with you? |
Truth hurts, son. Sad, but true. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| In fact, it is still up in the air as to whether Kerry made a gaffe. |
No, it is not. You would have to have the linguistic ability of a three year-old to not understand what he said. There is a reason why "liberals" understood the utterance and people like you didn't/don't: you do understand it. You're lying in order to make political hay. It is dishonest. It is disgusting. If the man's actual foibles aren't enough for you to hang your opposition on, then you shouldn't be in the fight.
WEAK. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| cbclark4 wrote: |
Need I remind the general populace of the typical disdain the liberals hold for our men in uniform.
"You know education,
if you make the most of it
you study hard
you do your homework
and you make an effort to be smart
you can do well.
If you don't you get stuck in Iraq."
John F. Kerry, US Sen.(D) MA
"There are all kinds of atrocities,
and I would have to say that yes,
yes, I committed the same kinds of atrocities
that thousands of other soldiers have committed,
in that I took part in shooting in free fire zones.
John F. Kerry, Self Confessed War Criminal (D) MA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fFS8TEMxKI
Sounds like the Dems like to re-open their old wounds.
I don't mind helping a little.
cbc |
Lie, if you must. We "liberals" really don't care. Hell, I know of no liberal who opposed moving into Afghanistan on both grounds of getting Al Queda and humanitarian grounds.
I personally know of no "liberal" who opposed going into Kosovo. Just the opposite.
To repeat: lie, if you must.
As for Kerry, how can you, again misleading, a.k.a. lying, even use that tired "stuck in Iraq" "quote"? You have to be truly, truly stupid to 1. post it as if it were uttered in the way you punctuated it and 2. keep posting it YEARS after it was fully discredited. You well know the quote was partly an aside and a mangled segueway.
Dishonesty is ugly. Don't be dishonest. |
Yes and gently skip over the war criminal admission. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
cosmo wrote:
| Quote: |
Se, there's a decent trhead going on with useful observations,
and you think it's useful to toss out that stupidty? WTF is wrong with you? |
You didn't expect EFLT to go more than a few weeks of probation on these boards without ranting again?
In fact, it is still up in the air as to whether Kerry made a gaffe. But when Bush does it, you liberals pounce on him like hyenas on carrion, so your indignation rings a little hollow. |
Seriously do you think anyone needs your narrow minded help. |
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