Korean Job Discussion Forums

[My 2 Cent]

[postfundie]

[AbbeFaria]

Since the 1940's the only thing the Arab powers could agree on was that the thought of an Israeli state was repugnant and they must do all they could to destroy it. (1500 years of repression, subjugation and genocide are hard to set aside, don't you know.) Beyond that they'd bicker about the color of the sky if you gave them enough time. They only use peace accords with the Israeli government as time to regroup and refortify. They have never, ever been interested in living peacefully along side Israel and as such, a real peace is impossible to achieve. Only a lull in the fighting.

-S-

[My 2 Cent]

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

[contrarian]

Joo's post, of which I'll poast part pretty well finishes the debate on the Liberty:

The recordings were made by a nearby American surveillance aircraft in the immediate aftermath of the attack.

"For your info, it is apparently an Arab ship," says ground control.

"Roger," says the pilot.

"It is an Egyptian supply ship," says ground control.

"Roger," comes the response.

The NSA released the tapes and transcripts under the Freedom of Information Act in response to a request from Miami Judge Jay Cristol.

An author of a book on the attack, Cristol said the tapes show it was a tragic accident in a time of war -- that the Israelis mistook the ship for an Egyptian one.

"I don't think there's any question that anyone who reads these tapes would be absolutely convinced there was the fog of war out there," Cristol said.

Next come the statement that Isarel attacked first. Almost true. Egypt blockaded the Guld of Aquaba, an international waterway, at Sharm al Sheik. An armed blackade is an act of war. Israel expected a bigger assault so they struck first. They did one he11 of a job and took out three Armies in 6 days. It was one of the more interesting aspects of my my younger years.

Background:
I had been an the Canadian Army as a very junior tank office for a time and was trained on the same tanks as the Israelis were using. I volunteered to go to Israel and participate. The war didn't last long enough, got there on the 9th day.

The intention in 1967 was to try to work out some peaceful accomodation with the Palestinians. 40 years of trying hasn't worked. Other posters have given comment on that.

There is something in the Arab way that makes them speak and write in a rather bloated rhetoric . . . mother of all battles . . . Drive them into the sea . . . Then fro some reason they begin to believe ther own bull pucky and try to act on it.

What this has lead them to since 1967 is then idea of losing a war without long term cost. The UN has contributted to this mental aberration by continually backing them and whining about them having to pay any price for their excesses. The usual poor refugee, unarmed civilian, proportional response tripe and other silly feel good responses.

In my own personal opinion it goes back to "face" the Palestinians and the Arab world are all caught up in pride. Yea rght! There is a price to pay for cupidity and stupidity. That will work out to losing 10 to 20 percent of the west bank and then being hermetically sealed off by the security wall until after another 100 years or so they might become civilized.

The alternative is Armageddon. Just for fun someone mught look up "The Sampson Option".

[Adventurer]

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

[AbbeFaria]

[AbbeFaria]

[bucheon bum]

Imagine what advances society could make if people devoted as much energy, time, and brain power to other parts of life as they do to this conflict.

[thepeel]

Arab states do not want this conflict resolved. They find the whole Jew=nazi paradigm very useful for keeping under control the idiot religious types foaming at the mouth with hate and a death-fetish that dominate islam these days. The last thing the Saudis, for example, would want is for the millions upon millions of hate filled terrorist-wannabes to focus their attention upon their own failed governments.

And that is the final answer.

I actually very impartial toward this whole issue. Religious poeple on both sides acting a crazy religious types. Fine. But it is getting a tad silly. The Israelis are doing the right thing walling the pals out.

[contrarian]

[-S-[/quote]

The Muslims did not commit 1,500 years of genocide against the Jewish people. That is patently false. After all, who helped the Muslims defeat the Spanish Catholics? The Spanish Jews, their allies. Were Jews equal to the Muslims? Certainly not, but they fared much better than their European counterparts. As far as Israel, it was a state whose creation was to lead to the ethnic cleansing of a large Arab population. Who would except their fellow ethnic brethren getting ethnic cleansed and losing the territory? I don't think you would. You make it seem it is just a penchant for violence. The European Jews were fleeing anti-Semitism naturally, and the Arabs were fighting a homeland that would be created by seizing territories where Arabs lived and ethnic cleansing them. Both are elementary.

As far as the person who mentioned the June 1967 war, it is true Israel drew first blood. Jordan was not interested in a war. Egypt was not interested in one either despite the posturing of Nasser. What was the proof? Nasser didn't even have the air force on high alert, and they were bombed before they could get out of the sky by Israel, so a country supposedly attacking Israel would have its air force in the air. Egypt didn't, and they lost very quickly and very badly, and Egypt had part of its army in Yemen helping socialists there fight some bizarre religious imam who was kind of a cult figure which is not new to Yemen. Of course, Nasser was dumb to be very strident with the rhetoric and pressure U Thant to remove the U.N. troops from the Sinai and close the Straits of Tirana. Israel was looking for an excuse to grab certain parts of the Middle East, and Israel felt he gave them the right pretext. The U.S. essentially knew what was going to happen and gave the green light, and France gave a red light.[/quote]

The adventurer has, as can be seen from the above, a very warped and superficial knowledge of history.

Th Jews in Spain at the time of the Islamic attack into Spain were not the allies of Islam, they were too inconsequnential at the time. Over the next few hundred years (until 1492 to be precise, the Jews did fairly well in Moorish Spain. There were limitations. The could not own land, carry weapons, ride a camel or a horse as the would put them higher than a Muslim. They were relegated to the sedentary "jobs". This was the root of the later trouble. They were a perpetual bookish underclass,

The Jews fared much worse in other Muslim lands but generally better than in Christian lands.

At the start of WWI there were a fair number of Jews in the Palestinian part of the Turkish province of Syria. The British government raised finances through the Rothschilds and other primarily Jewish Bankers, in return the Brtis promised a national homeland in Palestine to the Jews (the Balfour Declaration). They honored it for about 12 years and a lot of Jews cam into Palestine. This was opposed by the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al Huesseni, he was the originator of terror attacks on the Jews. The Jews retaliated in turn under an eccentic British Major, Orde Wingate, who trained them.

He left Palestine in the mid 1930's and went to Nazi Germany and there became an advisor to the "Final Solution" under Hitler, Himmler and Eichman. He also raised a couple of Muslim SS divisions in Bosnia for service in the SS. At he same time the Jews supplied enough men for an entire Brigade which fought in Syria and Lebanon against the Vichy French, in North Aftrica and through the Italian campaign.

The Britsh repaid the Jewish help by favouring the Arabs, after the Labour government cam into power in 1945. The Bevans, both of them, were rather nasty anti -Semites. The UN voted for partition of Palestine. The Jews accepted it and the PArab world rejected it. The bookish underclass Jews, whipped the Arab butts. There were refugees, a lot of them, about one third as a result of Israeli terror tactics and the other 2/3rds at the behest of the Mufti, now back from Nazi Germany, encouraging them to leave, get out of the way and ther could return later. That didn't work since they lost the war. The jews got about 50% more land than the original UN partition.

The Arabs called this the "catstrophe". It was just too much for Arab macho pride as desert warriors to comprehend. They gad been beaten by a rabble of underclass Jews. They had to avenge both loss and pride.

That is the root of 1967. (1956 was a sideshow).

1. Nearly all of the Egyptian Army was in the Sainia or Gaza. Its air-force, was sitting in its bases. Arabs never have been particulalrly good at military planning. The Syrisns were up on the Golan heights shelling the Jews (they didn't need to satart they had been doing it for years). The Egyptians has closed the Gulf of Aquaba - in itself an act of war. The Arab Legion, under Glub Pasha, a Brit, was poised to kick butt at Latrun and in East Jerusalem.

2. The Israelis took out the Egytian Air Force in the first rais - the one that started the shooting. The the took out the Syrian Air Force. The Israelis surprised the Egyptians and cout them into pockets, at Gaza, in the Negev, in the Sinia. Aquaba, and then on to the Canal. In the meantim the Golani Brigade fought their way to the top of the Golan and held against some really heavy counterattacks unto the same tanks that took the Egyptians out were trucked to the Golan, routed the Syrians and were on their way to Damascus when the armistance came down on the sixth day.

3. A paratroop Brigrade took Latrun and East Jerusalem while the vaunted Arab legion flopped like a wet mop. The Liberty has been dealt with.

[EFLtrainer]