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DEMOCRATS DECLARE MILITARY BRASS ARE FAIR GAME
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:23 am Post subject:

cbclark4 wrote:

stevemcgarrett wrote:

cosmo wrote:

Quote:

Se, there's a decent trhead going on with useful observations,
and you think it's useful to toss out that stupidty? WTF is wrong with you?

You didn't expect EFLT to go more than a few weeks of probation on these boards without ranting again?

In fact, it is still up in the air as to whether Kerry made a gaffe. But when Bush does it, you liberals pounce on him like hyenas on carrion, so your indignation rings a little hollow.

Seriously do you think anyone needs your narrow minded help.

Ooops!

My apologies to Steve.

This is an official fiveO thread.

cbc

ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:23 am Post subject:

Quote:

Need I remind the general populace of the typical disdain the liberals hold for our men in uniform.

You are definitely right. Also though, the right has its own disdain for the military. So many with deferments of service and let's not forget how easily they throw these men and women into the fire, with little thought or reasoning and based on political expediency and not security, one iota of security. They play up the military and pomp and ceremony only when it serves them (otherwise, keep the coffins away.). Let us remember their disdane also. For the leaders, the military are just grunts, from GIs to generals, just grunts. They don't give a grunt.

DD

EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:32 am Post subject:

cbclark4 wrote:

Yes and gently skip over the war criminal admission.

It is irrelevant to the discussion. You tossing a red herring doesn't mean I have to chase after it. Further, given you are unwilling to admit the obvious war crimes and treasonous acts of the current administration, you have no standing on the topic.

Done. Back on topic, my little neo-con.

I find it slightly hilarious, stevie, that you complain about how Reid is treating military brass given the number of them tossed under the bus by Bush for being right and having the sack to tell him the truth. For the record? As a member of Congress, it is Reid's DUTY to address poor leadership in the military. This idea that the military is sacrosanct is insupportable and, frankly, foolish.

cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:40 am Post subject:

EFLtrainer wrote:

cbclark4 wrote:

Yes and gently skip over the war criminal admission.

It shows a pattern.

stevemcgarrett

Joined: 24 Mar 2006

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:49 am Post subject:

cbclark:

Notice how EFLT, albeit with tentative steps, is regressing to his bombastic rhetoric? I suspect it's only a matter of days before he's going full tilt again.

So, EFLTrainer, my little neo-coM, before your meds wear off, let me repeat, emphatically if I might:

Kerry might or might not have made a gaffe. (With me so far or do I need to write it in boldface?)

Clark is "merely" pointing out that Kerry has a propensity for subterfuge. (Ah, wait, that's too subtle for you). He was saying that Kerry has a track record of speaking with a forked tongue. (Dang, wait again, I shouldn't let metaphors creep into my discourse--er--explanation).

He was saying that Kerry says one thing at one time to one group and another thing at another time to another group. Sort of like Hillary and Bill Clinton, who you might recall your beloved David Geffen, a liberal fundraiser, recently observed "lie with such ease." (O.K. that was a paraphrase--I'll admit it.)

No red herrings there. Just a stinking in the bayou branches rotting hulk of an old catfish for ya, EFL Trooper.

ddeubel sputtered:

Quote:

Let us remember their disdane also. For the leaders, the military are just grunts, from GIs to generals, just grunts. They don't give a grunt.

Another attempt at being sardonic, Mr. I'm-Not-American-but-I-try-to-post-like-I-am?

You make an observation about troop rotations knowing full well that there has been a shortage of units in Iraq and then resort to a cheap shot to generalize about the supposed disdain of the current administration for all those in uniform. That's heavy man, heavy. Maybe you could point to actual statements on or off the record, from the right or left corner of the Kerry-mouthpiece as it were, to substantiate your claim? Or maybe you could just STFU and go back to your backyard BBQ with the draft dodgers.

EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:24 am Post subject:

stevemcgarrett wrote:

cbclark:

Notice how EFLT, albeit with tentative steps, is regressing to his bombastic rhetoric?

I will, if your prediction comes true (though bombastic is a stupid characterization of my posts: "smackingly upside the head" is far more accurate), have had an opportunity at regression. You, my sad little, neo-con (you calling yourself a libertarian is the political equivalent of a gender identity crisis), will have always remained the single rudest, most spiteful, most inflammatory, disgusting poster on these boards. Now, since that is what you are going for, more power to ya!

Quote:

Kerry might or might not have made a gaffe. (With me so far or do I need to write it in boldface?)

Clark is "merely" pointing out that Kerry has a propensity for... saying... one thing at one time to one group and another thing at another time to another group.

Ah. I see. Is that anything like Bush saying he'd not have a foreign policy of nation-building and interventionist actions? Or saying there were no renditions going on? Or saying the US doesn't torture? Or saying all wiretaps were done with warrants? Etc.?

Now, in your above spewing you state that cb was going off-topic. How good of you to be so patient! See, when the topic is Reid going after military brass and he goes into Kerry stumbling over some words and calling it lying and not supporting our troops... that's going off-topic. And you say, "Hey! he was going off topic! Why don't you get it?!"

I must tell you, this is impressive, impressive rhetoric.

Now, using a stumble during a speech as evidence of being two-faced... that just doesn't make sense. You leave me with nowhere to turn. I can come to only one conclusion: senility. (Because, well, you're not stupid, right? And you wouldn't conflate the two to pander to a political stance, right? Being such an upstanding guy and all...)

Quote:

No red herrings there. Just a stinking in the bayou branches rotting hulk of an old catfish for ya, EFL Trooper.

What? They rotate the names of the logical fallacies among the various fish? Huh. Learn something new every day...

twg

Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:47 am Post subject:

cbclark4 wrote:

Need I remind the general populace of the typical disdain the liberals hold for our men in uniform.

Well, only if the intent is to lie.

Personally, I think the fetishism of the right for the military is more damaging than any negativity that may come from other quarters. Turning a soldier into an idea makes it easier for scuzzball political leaders to send them to die for iffy and/or out-right untrue reasons.

And the military should always be held accountable to the public and it's representatives. The same way them same representatives should be held accountable to the public.

ddeubel

Joined: 20 Jul 2005

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:23 am Post subject:

Quote:

I am glad I got under your skin. Seems the truth makes you squirm and scrawl.

I admire those in uniform who sincerely do their thing and do it well. And those in uniform who see beyond the rhetoric and ideology and know when to speak up in their own fashion and do what's right.

I DON'T support automatons, even like yourself who serve up a gag cloth and don't see the good or the right thing to do.

I especially don't like those who run the government, who help run the government through set contracts and payouts, those who are at the top of the heap and letting others care the "shit bucket". Slave labour they are making the military out to be and a plague on them. Sending boys to die for NOTHING. Shame on you and I hope you bloody well don't sleep well, for thinking of the military as you do yourself, an automaton.

I was not just talking about troop redeployments. I was talking about the whole fiasco, collateral damage, the knowing that they would die needlessly, the own hypocricy of much of the American "elite" which hides in privledge and let's the omlette get eaten (to quote that fat cat Szwatzkoff, in a backhanded way). Imagine a general saying that??? There is one instance.

I'll also repeat for you -- repeat in the true American fashion and why it still is precious despite , to many --- "I am a citizen of the world, there is nothing foreign to me". So stuff your xenophobia, you are not an American caveman routine.

DD

EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:00 am Post subject:

Hey, stevie, tell us just who you approve of to disapprove of our military brass. With bated breath...

Egad!!! Military people say military brass are fair game!!! GASP!

Quote:

Peter Pace is Out. Good.

General Peter Pace was let go today as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. That's a good thing. But the administration has tolerated his poor performance for too long, and dismissed him fearing his anticipated reconfirmation hearing would be ugly.

If the administration was hoping to avoid answering the tough questions, by avoiding a reconfirmation hearing for Pace, they can forget it.

General Pace grossly overstepped his bounds and poorly represented the military with his political actions and misguided statements.

The straw that broke the camel's back, for us, was his defense of a convicted felon, Scooter Libby, when it was entirely improper for him to do so, as a top leader in the military, who must remain non-partisan.

General Pace has made a number of other missteps that reflected poorly on the military as of late:

On Memorial Day, Pace seemed to defend the President's failed policy by deliberating fudging American death numbers from Iraq to sound not as high as they really are.

On March 11, Pace chose to publicly air his personal views on homosexuality, calling the lifestyle "immoral," and said that was justification for the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy on gays openly serving.

In today's press conference announcing the move, Secretary of Defense Gates maintained that one of the reasons for letting Pace go was to avoid a contentious reconfirmation hearing. They won't avoid the tough questions, if VoteVets.org has anything to do with it.

This president has to, and will, be held accountable. It doesn't matter how many people they let go. Congress has a job to do, and we expect that they will do it. We'll be there to be sure they do.

stevemcgarrett

Joined: 24 Mar 2006

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:07 pm Post subject:

EFLTrainer wrote:

Quote:

though bombastic is a stupid characterization of my posts: "smackingly upside the head" is far more accurate)

Naw, that's too euphemistic; I'd say "raving" is closer to the mark. Try to hold out a little longer if you can. Give those meds a chance to kick in.

Quote:

you calling yourself a libertarian is the political equivalent of a gender identity crisis

I've never claimed to be a libertarian, either. Indeed, I've criticized certain aspects of that political belief in previous threads if you bothered to read beyond the first sentence of my posts.

Nice try, BLT, with the online editiorial you posted. It just so happens that VoteVets.org is a PAC who advisers include two prominent Democrats in Congress and Wesley Clark, who has his own political axe to grind. Are you so naive to think that all vets speak with a united voice? The vast majority, though, support the top brass despite your wishful thinking to the contrary. If anything, the dissenting voices on that website demonstrate that soldiers can and do think for themselves, a point lost on ddeubel and twg.

I stand by my assertion that Pace was let go because of the fiasco his renomination would have created on Capitol Hill.

And no one here has disputed my charge that this is the first time a member of the very top brass has been so publicly chastised by either political party.

twg wrote:

I

Quote:

think the fetishism of the right for the military is more damaging than any negativity that may come from other quarters

Oh, so now patriotism manifest as loyalty is a fetish? Man, that's weird even for you.

ddeubel driveled:

Quote:

Slave labour they are making the military out to be and a plague on them. Sending boys to die for NOTHING. Shame on you and I hope you bloody well don't sleep well,

It's getting more difficult to decipher your convoluted syntax but I can parse these sentences at least. Use of the word "bloody" is a dead give-away that you're not American. And while you may believe that the cause for which the soldiers is sent is "nothing," it doesn't mean the leaders who send them or most of the soldiers themselves who are sent feel the same way you do. And as one who lives beyond American borders, it's pretty presumptuous of you to make such a reckless claim anyhow. With your "plague" talk you sound like a Monty Python character on crack.

twg

Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:26 am Post subject:

stevemcgarrett wrote:

Quote:

I think the fetishism of the right for the military is more damaging than any negativity that may come from other quarters

Oh, so now patriotism manifest as loyalty is a fetish?

No, it's not patriotism. Claiming it to be that would be a lie.

It's turning human beings into political tools because of the job they have. By portraying soldiers as these saintly beings with no prupose but to travel around the world and beat up your enemies for you, you are dehumanising them and turning them into icons: Fetishism.

Sorry the right don't love the soldiers. They just love what they can be used for.

stevemcgarrett

Joined: 24 Mar 2006

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:45 am Post subject:

twg wrote:

Quote:

Survey after survey of families in uniform over the years has found that at least two-thirds vote Republican. As one who grew up in the military and served, I can vouch for that demographic.

So by your twisted logic that would mean that the majority of our men and women in uniform have like being used as tools.

The more you say about the American military, the more ignorance and callousness you display.

You and EFLT should be running buddies.

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:49 am Post subject:

stevemcgarrett wrote:

Use of the word "bloody" is a dead give-away that you're not American.

He isn't American. He isn't black either.

About the OP. The "brass" should be held accountable for the decisions they make. I do not believe that joining the army absolves one from public responsibility.

The_Conservative

Joined: 15 Mar 2007

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:26 am Post subject:

EFLtrainer wrote:

stevemcgarrett wrote:

In fact, it is still up in the air as to whether Kerry made a gaffe.

There is a reason why "liberals" understood the utterance and people like you didn't/don't: you do understand it. You're lying in order to make political hay. It is dishonest. It is disgusting. If the man's actual foibles aren't enough for you to hang your opposition on, then you shouldn't be in the fight.

WEAK.

Replace Kerry with Bush and "liberals" with "conservatives" and there you have it.
Basically sums all all the threads liberals post about Bush

cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:41 am Post subject:

twg wrote:

cbclark4 wrote:

Need I remind the general populace of the typical disdain the liberals hold for our men in uniform.

Yes, I agree, as I pointed out earlier, questioning is fine it is the slander that sucks, yes I said sucks.

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