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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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kingtout
Joined: 03 May 2007 Location: ROK...again...
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| The Perfect Cup of Coffee wrote: |
| The Nork army would probably lose half their soldiers out of pure mutiny. Sure Seoul would take some serious damage, but 2 days of air strikes on the Nork frontlines, and you'd have mass defections and surrenders. |
Not much a student of history, eh? Know what happened last time, with only a year or so of Commie brainwashing? The South all but surrendered until US gunships staved off the Norks from more or less massacring those inside the Busan Perimeter. Key Military leaders (when strength was relatively even) INVITED the North to take over as long as they agreed to spare certain people.
Now factor 50+ years of brainwashing. Sure, a few % of Norks are smart enough to overcome the brainwashing, but you really don't seem to have a grasp of what Commie propaganda and daily leader worship can truly do. |
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Theda

Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Location: Australia
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Morton wrote: |
Maybe it'll scare China.  |
The Chinese intervened on the North Korean side last time around, and kicked the U.S. Forces (which had rapidly proceeded North when only against the North Koreans) back down to the 38th parallel. They only stopped when the U.N. command decided to halt around the 38th parallel.
Given that the Chinese fought the U.S. (and allies) back when they (the Chinese) had inferior arms and no air power - why on earth would they be scared now?? |
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dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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that's pretty compelling. So, basically in the 50 years that the Koreans and Americans have been working in 'partnership', the Koreans despite being a very intelligent people have not figured out how to put their house in order enough to counter the N.Korean threat?
so, where does that leave the Iraqis? |
Why do you thing South Korea wets itself EVERYTIME the U.S. wants to pull out or reduce troops? And, ever since Jimmy Carter, the U.S. HAS wanted to leave. No, the South does not have their shite together. If they thought they did (their own government), then they would not piss their pants when hearing the U.S. say, "OK...time to step up, and take this on your own".
Iraq? Phuck man.............those people need to quite fighting amongst themselves first. The U.S. trying to keep the peace over there (this not according to what you see on BBC or CNN........they are nothing but radical liberal media outlets, who will do anything to make the U.S. and Bush look bad), and stabalize the region. If the Iraqies would come together on this, even just for a little while, and take care of business, then things would progress.
But, I don't really know...that is my best guess.
dmbfan |
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darkhorse_NZ

Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
Why do you thing South Korea wets itself EVERYTIME the U.S. wants to pull out or reduce troops? And, ever since Jimmy Carter, the U.S. HAS wanted to leave. No, the South does not have their *beep* together. If they thought they did (their own government), then they would not piss their pants when hearing the U.S. say, "OK...time to step up, and take this on your own".
Iraq? Phuck man.............those people need to quite fighting amongst themselves first. The U.S. trying to keep the peace over there (this not according to what you see on BBC or CNN........they are nothing but radical liberal media outlets, who will do anything to make the U.S. and Bush look bad), and stabalize the region. If the Iraqies would come together on this, even just for a little while, and take care of business, then things would progress.
But, I don't really know...that is my best guess.
dmbfan |
so, yeh the koreans are gonna take peacetime control of its soldiers real soon or just have, provoking outrage. By 2011, that control will extend to wartime operations.
so, do you have any insight into why the Koreans haven't got their shit sorted yet.
too much focus on the economy since the Korean War? Hell, they went through a period of military dictatorship, you'd think they would've sorted their miliitary out then. |
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dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Even behind their blind, misguided nationalism........I think that the majority of South Koreans know this as well.
But, instead they keep feeding the enemy. One day it could possibly actually happen......again.
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Historic Sites of Tension and Confrontation
North Korea began digging tunnels under the DMZ at the same time that the South and the North first launched peace talks in 1974. According to intelligence analysis, it is believed that North Korea began digging the tunnels after Kim Il-sung (North Korea's President) issued the September 25 Combat Readiness Order in 1971. In this order, he stressed the need to dig tunnels under the Demilitarized Zone, saying that one tunnel would be more effective than 10 atomic bombs and would thus be the best means to overwhelm the heavily fortified front |
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2nd Infiltration Tunnel
Twice as wide as the first tunnel, the second tunnel was discovered in March 1975 in the Central Sector of the DMZ, about 13 kilometers north of Cheorwon. Measuring two meters high and 2.1-2.2 meters wide, the arch-shaped tunnel is large enough to move heavy weapons as tanks, field artillery, and armored personnel carriers. More than 30,000 troops could move, three to four abreast (a division in strength), per hour. Bored through 3.5 kilometers of bedrock at a depth of 50-160 meters below ground, the 2nd tunnel extends 1.1 kilometers south of the Military Demarcation Line to a point 101 kilometers from Seoul. A spacious troop assembly area was carved out inside the tunnel, which has three exits.
The 3rd Infiltration Tunnel
Only 44 kilometers from Seoul (less than an hour's drive), the third tunnel was discovered in October 1978. Almost identical in structure to Tunnel 2, the 1.635 kilometer-long tunnel is 1.95 meters high and 2.1 meters wide. It penetrates 435 meters south of the Military Demarcation Line at a point 4 kilometers south of Panmunjeom, running through bedrock at a depth of about 73 meters below ground. Capable of moving a full division (plus their weapons) per hour, it was evidently designed for a surprise attack on Seoul. This tunnel is only 2 kilometers from a key outpost defending the Munsan corridor leading to Seoul.
The 4th Infiltration Tunnel
The fourth tunnel, which is located along one of the most strategic routes in the Eastern Sector, was discovered in March 1990 only 26 kilometers northeast of Yanggu. This tunnel is buried at a depth of 145 meters below ground and measures two meters high and two meters wide. Almost identical with Tunnel 2 and Tunnel 3 in size and structure, the fourth tunnel intrudes 1.03 kilometers south of the Military Demarcation Line and is designed to infiltrate massive forces into the Sohwa-Wontong corridor, the major access route to the Yeongdong (Seoul- Gangneung) Expressway |
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Last edited by dmbfan on Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: Why is the US army still in Korea? |
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| darkhorse_NZ wrote: |
| i'm guessing if the North crossed over they'd run out of petrol at Uijongbu, everybody would get out of there tanks and started looting some shops. |
I bet a lot of those young fellas are hungry. When they come over, what say, let's invite them all out for bbq galbi. And don't forget the soju ... bet they'd like that.
And after diner - norae bang!

Last edited by The Bobster on Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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riley
Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Location: where creditors can find me
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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As for the Korean War, (the last time) China had huge army when they intervened. I'm curious how many casualties they had because of a lack of supplies and resources. To their advantage, just like the U.S. and other European nations that aided the South, they had just finished fighting a long war, (The Chinese Revolution/Civil War ended in 1948) so they also had experienced soldiers and officers.
ROK military definitely has very good weaponry compared to North Korea, but do they have the flexibility in thinking that allowed the U.S. to destroy Iraqi conventional forces twice? (I said conventional meaning tanks and such, not what is happening now with guerilla forces.) I think that question maybe why the U.S. has had or still has control of all forces during any fighting not just the resources we can bring.
Contrary to what some might think, majority of US citizens have and still do respect/glorify our military and the soldiers. I point to our movies as an example of this. (Top Gun anyone?) This is unlike what I have heard about how citizens of South Korea view their military. If a force is not respected by the people it is supposed to defend, then it will probably have a low morale and be more willing to run.
To the OP, what a beautiful troll. You lobbed a great, perfect, soft pitch at us. I'm just surprised that there weren't any real anti-american comments here. |
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Soju Lizard
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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A simple question with a not so simple answer. First, as others have pointed out, the two Koreas are still technically at war and the NK leadership has made no secrets of it's intentions to unify Korea under the Northern flag.
Second, there are other players in the region including Japan and China. Japan wants a stable East Asia and the US presence in Korea. The US wants a show of force (albeit a light one) in China's backyard. As a side note, there are just as many US Army Chinese linguists working in the spook halls as Korean linguists. Think their might be a reason for that?
Also you can't discount the financial rewards for the Koreans by having the US Army here. I didn't Google it, but I've heard over the years that it costs the US taxpayer between 4 and 10 billion dollars (depending on the source) a year to finance all of the US soldiers and US military equipment currently in Korea; of which Seoul only pays a fraction (about 10-30%) of the cost (again depending on the source). By saving all of this money they'd otherwise have to spend on their own defense, SK can instead spend that money on improving their infrastructure, building new roads, running cable for their internet backbone, building new schools, hospitals, etc. You didn't think the SK's became a stable economic power in the last 20 years because they know how to make LCD's, cheap cars and cell phones did you?
It's a win-win situation for the SK's to have the US Army here at a fraction of what it would cost them to improve their own Army and buy all those planes, helicopters and tanks which the US Army provides at a discounted price. Not to mention, the 25,000 US soldiers themselves. No Korean wants their conscripted service to increase, which it would if the US Army left here. When the US drew down it's troop presence from 33,000 to 25,000 the first outcries in the Korean papers were over worries that Koreans would have a longer involuntary military commitment.
The bottom line is SK reaps a financial reward by having the US Army here; the US gets to maintain a show of force it East Asia and protect US interests in the region, the Japanese are placated, the Chinese are reminded that the US still is the Big Dog in the world and the NK's are prevented from trying anything tricky.
Confused? So am I. lol. |
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dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| To the OP, what a beautiful troll. You lobbed a great, perfect, soft pitch at us. I'm just surprised that there weren't any real anti-american comments here. |
As Curly would say..........."..day ain't over yet".
dmbfan |
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dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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A
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simple question with a not so simple answer. First, as others have pointed out, the two Koreas are still technically at war and the NK leadership has made no secrets of it's intentions to unify Korea under the Northern flag.
Second, there are other players in the region including Japan and China. Japan wants a stable East Asia and the US presence in Korea. The US wants a show of force (albeit a light one) in China's backyard. As a side note, there are just as many US Army Chinese linguists working in the spook halls as Korean linguists. Think their might be a reason for that?
Also you can't discount the financial rewards for the Koreans by having the US Army here. I didn't Google it, but I've heard over the years that it costs the US taxpayer between 4 and 10 billion dollars (depending on the source) a year to finance all of the US soldiers and US military equipment currently in Korea; of which Seoul only pays a fraction (about 10-30%) of the cost (again depending on the source). By saving all of this money they'd otherwise have to spend on their own defense, SK can instead spend that money on improving their infrastructure, building new roads, running cable for their internet backbone, building new schools, hospitals, etc. You didn't think the SK's became a stable economic power in the last 20 years because they know how to make LCD's, cheap cars and cell phones did you?
It's a win-win situation for the SK's to have the US Army here at a fraction of what it would cost them to improve their own Army and buy all those planes, helicopters and tanks which the US Army provides at a discounted price. Not to mention, the 25,000 US soldiers themselves. No Korean wants their conscripted service to increase, which it would if the US Army left here. When the US drew down it's troop presence from 33,000 to 25,000 the first outcries in the Korean papers were over worries that Koreans would have a longer involuntary military commitment.
The bottom line is SK reaps a financial reward by having the US Army here; the US gets to maintain a show of force it East Asia and protect US interests in the region, the Japanese are placated, the Chinese are reminded that the US still is the Big Dog in the world and the NK's are prevented from trying anything tricky. |
That is pretty much spot on. |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| I reckon that the makeup wearing pretty boys of the south would have no problem fending of those malnourished auschwitz-survivor-alikes from the north. |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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I imagine that the Armed forces of SK may be a little lighter than they were during the Vietnam war.
The ROK Marines had a certain reputation and reportedly (or at least I heard) had the highest kill ratio of any other outfit that saw action in Vietnam.
" The ROKMC boasted an overall kill ratio of 25-to-1 in the Vietnam War."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Korea_Marine_Corps
Has anyone on this forum had an altercation with a ROK Marine?
Can anyone attest to the the fitness of these guys today?
Last edited by cbclark4 on Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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I imagine that the Armed forces of SK may be a little lighter than they were during the Vietnam war.
The ROK Marines had a certain reputation and reportedly (or at least I heard) had the highest kill ratio of any other outfit that saw action in Vietnam.
Has anyone on this forum had an altercation with a ROK Marine?
Can anyone attest to the the fitness of these guys today |
That is nothing but a rumor. I heard that Australians had the highest kill rate in Vietnam. I heard the U.S. had the highest kill rate in Vietnam as well.
In regards to a R.O.K. Marine, well...they are tough. I almost got into it one night, but was saved by a Korean gal friend of mine. Yeah, that guy would have squashed me, no doubt.
But, the R.O.K. Marines are not going to win a war on their own.
dmbfan |
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riley
Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Location: where creditors can find me
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| According to my neighbor, he was former Special Forces and he does have a certain attitude (confident, good stance, commanding attitude) at times that could reflect that life. |
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darkhorse_NZ

Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
| Quote: |
I imagine that the Armed forces of SK may be a little lighter than they were during the Vietnam war.
The ROK Marines had a certain reputation and reportedly (or at least I heard) had the highest kill ratio of any other outfit that saw action in Vietnam.
Has anyone on this forum had an altercation with a ROK Marine?
Can anyone attest to the the fitness of these guys today |
That is nothing but a rumor. I heard that Australians had the highest kill rate in Vietnam. I heard the U.S. had the highest kill rate in Vietnam as well.
In regards to a R.O.K. Marine, well...they are tough. I almost got into it one night, but was saved by a Korean gal friend of mine. Yeah, that guy would have squashed me, no doubt.
But, the R.O.K. Marines are not going to win a war on their own.
dmbfan |
As far as I know the combined Aus/NZ SAS had a kill ratio of 500:1. Which was the highest of the war. However the ROK Marines were certainly feard by the VC. There apparently being an order out NOT to engage ROK Marines in any way, shape or form. apparently it's because the ROK Marines dealt with other Asians the Asian way. This is supposed to be the only such 'do not engage' order given by the VC. |
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