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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| The church has not stopped the prosecution of guilty priests. It is a horrible heinous crime, one should and must hold the individual lawbreakers accountable, but not the entire Church. |
The church creates a culture in which sexual abuse can flourish, it fosters it. There have been a very disproportional amount of sexual abuse scandals in the catholic church as compared to any other church. It is the culture of sexual repression and a profoundly unhealthy attitude to sex and sexuality that primarily contributes to this. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| merkurix wrote: |
| Grimalkin wrote: |
Riiight! The leader of one billion catholics carries no political clout.  |
His position on political matters are as weighty as say Queen Elizabeth's or Rowan Williams. They may have strong opinions, but they ultimately really don't matter.
A case in point could be the recognition of same-sex marriages in Spain. The Vatican lamented over this ruling. If he really did have any political clout, don't you think that a fiercely Roman Catholic Spain would not have passed a measure that is so diametrically opposed to the Church's official stance on the issue? |
Give me a break!
They always try to use their political clout. In some countries they are more successful than others. The Phillipines for example.
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| There has never been anything in church teaching to say that there is anything wrong with being a celibate homosexual. To then exclude them from the priesthood is using the position of the papacy to enforce a personal prejudice. That is despicable! |
Entrance into the church's priesthood is one that requires a tremendous amount of discernment and training, and the Church will only allow seminarians who have demonstrated a "true calling" for the service of the church, homosexual or not. It is erroneous to think that people should be allowed into the Church's service in order to further repress one's homosexuality or to have safe sanctuary from "homosexual temptations." But the ultimate decision lies with the order in which the novitiate is in to allow him into the priesthood, not the Pope. And in this particular case, the Pope was again, if it is indeed his opinion, was not speaking ex-cathdra. |
What???
He has forbidden their ordination!
He has not spoken ex cathedra because it is not the church's position that there is anything wrong about being a celibate homosexual. He is simply enforcing a personal prejudice.
Don't you get it?
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| Even moreso when contrasted with their treatment of paedophiles. |
10The church has not stopped the prosecution of guilty priests. It is a horrible heinous crime, 2)one should and must hold the individual lawbreakers accountable, but not the entire Church. The Pope sent letters out to bishops warning about breaking the "confessional seal," in which priests are strictly forbidden in outing sinful parties by making confessed sins public. This is a double-edged sword indeed, but why aren't all of the victims coming forward en masse? It's only priests that are bound by the confessional seal, not the laity. It's really telling that people seem to be more content with getting money than getting justice by not pursuing a full criminal investigation and prosecution. In L.A. county, two allegations were made against Cardinal Roger Mahoney which later turned proved to be frivolous. Many dioceses are going bankrupt. There are few people who are going forward with a full prosecution. There is no denying that certain people will be scarred for life. But one needs to also consider that there are some opportunists who are milking the Church for what it's worth. |
1) It cannot stop the prosecution of paedophile priests. That is a matter for the courts. The church in many cases has covered up their crimes and in doing so has facilitated the abuse of other children.
2) Wasn't it Jesus who said 'A good tree cannot produce bad fruit...' or do christians not follow the teaching of Christ?
How about some more of it's fruit....
The Spanish Inquisition for almost a third of the church's existence....or are people milking that too?
The church's position on the use of condoms to prevent AIDS insisting instead on celibacy. Not much use to women in African countries who have no power to refuse sex to their HIV positive husbands and so they and their unborn babies become infected. So much for the church's much vaunted care for unborn babies! |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| endo wrote: |
And don't you think the priesthood is the perfect refuge for closet homosexuals brought up in religious families?
I really mean this.
Think about. You're a young homosexual male with no outlet to express your true sexuality. Most likely you are brough up in a religious family and by comming out you would more than likley be discriminated against or even ostracised.
So what choice do you have. Continue to live a life of lies and pretend to be something you aren't.
Or you can join the priesthood. A place where you sacrifice your sexuality for God. A place where you can escape your socially stated evil desires.
So some of these homosexual priests devote their life to God. But unfortunately they also have these sweet and impressionable altar boys working close to them. It's no wonder that they get abused. The priests are sexually repressed and this is their only outlet.
The priesthood is an unatural organization. No wonder it's so disfuctional. |
Well said. I think too these young men assume "this is god's way of telling me he's calling me to the priesthood". They try to ignore their homosexual desires and key on their lack of desire for hot naked female flesh. Since they're not attracted to women, this must be god telling them to be a priest. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Grimalkin wrote: |
| merkurix wrote: |
| Grimalkin wrote: |
Riiight! The leader of one billion catholics carries no political clout. |
His position on political matters are as weighty as say Queen Elizabeth's or Rowan Williams. They may have strong opinions, but they ultimately really don't matter.
A case in point could be the recognition of same-sex marriages in Spain. The Vatican lamented over this ruling. If he really did have any political clout, don't you think that a fiercely Roman Catholic Spain would not have passed a measure that is so diametrically opposed to the Church's official stance on the issue? |
Give me a break!
They always try to use their political clout. In some countries they are more successful than others. The Phillipines for example.
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| There has never been anything in church teaching to say that there is anything wrong with being a celibate homosexual. To then exclude them from the priesthood is using the position of the papacy to enforce a personal prejudice. That is despicable! |
Entrance into the church's priesthood is one that requires a tremendous amount of discernment and training, and the Church will only allow seminarians who have demonstrated a "true calling" for the service of the church, homosexual or not. It is erroneous to think that people should be allowed into the Church's service in order to further repress one's homosexuality or to have safe sanctuary from "homosexual temptations." But the ultimate decision lies with the order in which the novitiate is in to allow him into the priesthood, not the Pope. And in this particular case, the Pope was again, if it is indeed his opinion, was not speaking ex-cathdra. |
What???
He has forbidden their ordination!
He has not spoken ex cathedra because it is not the church's position that there is anything wrong about being a celibate homosexual. He is simply enforcing a personal prejudice.
Don't you get it?
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| Even moreso when contrasted with their treatment of paedophiles. |
10The church has not stopped the prosecution of guilty priests. It is a horrible heinous crime, 2)one should and must hold the individual lawbreakers accountable, but not the entire Church. The Pope sent letters out to bishops warning about breaking the "confessional seal," in which priests are strictly forbidden in outing sinful parties by making confessed sins public. This is a double-edged sword indeed, but why aren't all of the victims coming forward en masse? It's only priests that are bound by the confessional seal, not the laity. It's really telling that people seem to be more content with getting money than getting justice by not pursuing a full criminal investigation and prosecution. In L.A. county, two allegations were made against Cardinal Roger Mahoney which later turned proved to be frivolous. Many dioceses are going bankrupt. There are few people who are going forward with a full prosecution. There is no denying that certain people will be scarred for life. But one needs to also consider that there are some opportunists who are milking the Church for what it's worth. |
1) It cannot stop the prosecution of paedophile priests. That is a matter for the courts. The church in many cases has covered up their crimes and in doing so has facilitated the abuse of other children.
2) Wasn't it Jesus who said 'A good tree cannot produce bad fruit...' or do christians not follow the teaching of Christ?
How about some more of it's fruit....
The Spanish Inquisition for almost a third of the church's existence....or are people milking that too?
The church's position on the use of condoms to prevent AIDS insisting instead on celibacy. Not much use to women in African countries who have no power to refuse sex to their HIV positive husbands and so they and their unborn babies become infected. So much for the church's much vaunted care for unborn babies! |
There have been political deals made with states to curb the prosecution, see New Hampshire. |
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