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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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 Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:29 am Post subject: |
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[quote="mindmetoo"]That's not the [improper] appeal to authority fallacy. The fallacy simply states the person has tried to support his argument by appealing to an authority in an improper way.
Improper: "My cancer doctor is a very smart fellow and says the Honda Galapagos is a great car!"
Proper: "My cancer doctor says I have cancer."[quote]
He is citing the list of names as being important to the discussion precisely because it is a list of names "widely known." Both in it's content and in it's distribution, he cites it as proof that I am *not* expert at all in the field of discussion.
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| He is pointing out your fallacy of inconsistency. You expect people debating with you who ask you to support a point to be intimately familiar with ever possible issue and then you refuse to answer on the grounds the person is not adequately informed. |
This is a lie. I'll say it again: if you're going to make the claim, cut and paste. You never do because you can't. I have held specific people accountable for attempting to take part in a discussion in which they didn't even know the basics. It was impossible to discuss with them without teaching them the entire field of study. You are one of them. I have held others to account for simply not having the mental capacity to engage. They completely lacked the logical skills to conduct a coherent conversation. Enns is dangerously close to that on this thread.
I refuse to answer when the person is lazy and asking stupid questions that are inappropriate for anyone with even transient knowledge of the topic. Redirecting them, as I have done with you, is a legitimate response, particularly when the info has already been posted on the forums in question. Your hurt feelings from having to work a little and not being babied are not a concern of mine.
When you speak in ignorance, you have a responsibility to educate yourself.
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You, however, demonstrate you're not familiar with a rather high profile bit of crap being put forward by the global warming denial crowd. (I should note I was the one who schooled you on it.)
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You schooled whom? You are delusional. You would claim to have "schooled" me by making something out of me not having had to waste my time on a pile of bullshit because I was lucky enough to not have come across it? Are you insane?
Did you check any other sources on any of this info? No? Didn't think so. Any other articles, etc? No? Hardly surprising. Typical MO for you. Unlike you, I have looked at other sources on this issue. The "Amero" is something that appears to be under consideration, though "officially" not on the table. But, again, you can't be bothered with educating yourself: you're too busy playing tag on a message board. |
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enns
Joined: 02 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| I think the body of all of your 4755 posts contain the word "liar" coupled with you claiming that your opponent hasn't educated himself on an issue. You're too predictable, son. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| enns wrote: |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| He is citing the list of names as being important to the discussion precisely because it is a list of names "widely known." Both in it's content and in it's distribution, he cites it as proof that I am *not* expert at all in the field of discussion. |
That fallacy is simply a false premise. He is making no appeal to an authority. He is trying to define you as not being an authority. "This is well known. All true authorities are well read on well known topics." His premise is the list is well known. If it is not, the premise is false. If it is, you're a poor expert. If one is to be an expert, one should be familiar with well known developments in your field. Behe, the "expert" on irreducibility, should be familiar with current research on the flagellum. If he shows continued unfamiliarity with current topics, he fails the test of being an expert.
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| This is a lie. I'll say it again: if you're going to make the claim, cut and paste. |
More inconsistency fallacy on your part. To which I say "read, son, read". *smirk*
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| Did you check any other sources on any of this info? No? Didn't think so. Any other articles, etc? No? Hardly surprising. Typical MO for you. Unlike you, I have looked at other sources on this issue. The "Amero" is something that appears to be under consideration, though "officially" not on the table. But, again, you can't be bothered with educating yourself: you're too busy playing tag on a message board. |
I repeat. The article made claims. I asked you if you had any evidence to back up such claims. You waved your hands and claimed the evidence was out there. Your typical response when you have nothing. That's where we stand.
But here let me repeat:
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1. This is not a trade treaty. These changes are being done behind closed doors and susposedly within the administrative powers of various agencies. IT IS NOT A TREATY AND THUS NOT SUBJECT TO LEGISLATIVE APPROVAL. Glad to see you all read so thoroughly.  |
Based on what evidence these changes are being made or can be made without legislative approval?
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| 2. The SPP has existed for YEARS, but only came to general public awareness last year. |
So? There are a lot of government groups that reporters don't have time to chase down.
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| 3. Consider that it has been very, very quietly done behind closed doors. Why? |
Define quietly. They have a web site.
http://www.spp.gov/
They've been in existence since 2005. Look, the White House has their press release from 2005.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/03/20050323-2.html
How is this "quiet"?
Here are their press releases since inception:
http://www.spp.gov/press_releases.asp
The shadowy hand of the conspiracy!
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| 4. Consider it is being advised by leaders from among the largest corporations with ZERO grassroots input. |
If it's a trade and standards matter, is this the time for public consultation? Don't you first want to talk to the people this will materially affect?
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| 5. Consider imminent domain is being used to confiscate properties. This is happening, not will, not maybe. |
Where? Can you give me an example?
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| Any intelligent ovbservations or info would be wecomed. |
Uh huh. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
When we decided we needed oil, we went to Iraq and did what we had to do.
When we decide we need water and wood, watch out. |
But why bomb it when you can buy it? |
We Canadians have generally agreed you can buy Canada for the price of $1 million per citizen, paid directly to each citizen. |
Yep. Canada's asking price is $30 000,000,000,000 and that's a bargain because it's in CANADIAN dollars.....any takers out there?  |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
I can't comprehend that an irrelevant list is irrelevant and that EFLtrainer would be wasting his time arguing about it with me because my head is stuck far, far up my bum.
I am arguing appeals to authority about a list that means nothing. It is VITAL that all experts in every field know about every piece of irrelevant info even remotely touched by that field. It is no different than every minister being required to know every word of the bible by heart, or for a surgeon to know the name of person who made the tile used to finish the floor he is standing on.
Dammit! How can he claim, er not claim to, err, be an expert that he didn't cliam to be when we accused of him of being one and not trying to really be one when he is because he's on this thread and we want to attack him for his non-expertness?!!! EFLtrainer cannot be an expert, because he has never heard of a bullshit list that is irrelevant.
Further, he isn't an expert. This is important because he never claimed to be!! He is such a liar for never claiming to be an expert while I am trying to accuse him of not being one!!
Also, he doesn't know who is on Santa Clause's Good and Bad lists and that REALLY pisses me off! |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Privateer wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
When we decided we needed oil, we went to Iraq and did what we had to do.
When we decide we need water and wood, watch out. |
But why bomb it when you can buy it? |
We Canadians have generally agreed you can buy Canada for the price of $1 million per citizen, paid directly to each citizen. |
Yep. Canada's asking price is $30 000,000,000,000 and that's a bargain because it's in CANADIAN dollars.....any takers out there? |
It would be American dollars. Although given the current exchange rate, there's not a huge difference between the Canadian and American dollar. Just hope we don't ask for that in Euros. You'll have to pony up way more. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
I can't comprehend that an irrelevant list is irrelevant and that EFLtrainer would be wasting his time arguing about it with me because my head is stuck far, far up my bum.
I am arguing appeals to authority about a list that means nothing. It is VITAL that all experts in every field know about every piece of irrelevant info even remotely touched by that field. It is no different than every minister being required to know every word of the bible by heart, or for a surgeon to know the name of person who made the tile used to finish the floor he is standing on.
Dammit! How can he claim, er not claim to, err, be an expert that he didn't cliam to be when we accused of him of being one and not trying to really be one when he is because he's on this thread and we want to attack him for his non-expertness?!!! EFLtrainer cannot be an expert, because he has never heard of a *beep* list that is irrelevant.
Further, he isn't an expert. This is important because he never claimed to be!! He is such a liar for never claiming to be an expert while I am trying to accuse him of not being one!!
Also, he doesn't know who is on Santa Clause's Good and Bad lists and that REALLY pisses me off! |
Awww, you're such a wit. I guess these tactics are okay for you, Adrian Mole, because you're one of them intellectuals.
Anyway, you don't seem to be able to defend your position. Anyone think EFL has been doing a good job of defending his position? Anyone? |
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enns
Joined: 02 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| This is typical ELF, mindmetoo. Check out some old threads, when he is getting battered in an argument he misquotes people to try and appear witty. It usually comes after his first wave of personal insults and his "you are a liar" tirades. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| enns wrote: |
| This is typical ELF, mindmetoo. Check out some old threads, when he is getting battered in an argument he misquotes people to try and appear witty. It usually comes after his first wave of personal insults and his "you are a liar" tirades. |
Oh yeah. I'm well versed in his tantrums. His fav with me is claiming I'm stalking him. Like I sit here waiting for him to post something and then I pounce with a purposely contrarian view simply to bullyrag him. Although he seems to ignore that we're on the same side regarding global warming (I did have to school him in that 17,000 scientist list) and probably on the same side regarding Iraq (although I don't think the USA should pull out ASAP... "it laid that turd, now it pretty much as to keep the flies away"). |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:42 am Post subject: |
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Boys, boys, boys. You've nothing to say. Nothing. You argue a list is important that isn't and that I know nothing of climate science because I've never heard of a list that... isn't important.
You argue I have to defend a piece written by someone else simply because I posted it here.
You're pretty damned dim.
And here's my improper appeal to authority: I've never had any of the people I respect for their posts on these boards ever attempt to claim there is anything wrong with my logic. The D students, however, always do when I point out the information is already on the forums and to GO FIND IT, etc.
Good night, children. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Well, EFL: I'll give you credit for one thing: You actually have started to use a dictionary. Of course, being a gutless moron, you quoted a "dictionary" definition of 'backhanded compliment' w/o actually naming the source. For all we know, you could've made up the quotation. My source for 'backhanded compliment' comes from the LONGMAN American Dictionary(1999) which states, more or less, that a backhanded compliment is an indirect compliment with the use of sarcasm. Now, mate, if "you're a hoot " gets you so hot & bothered that you have to reply w/"liar", ''idiot", well then...I reckon your social calendar is filled chock-a-block(yeah, that's sarcasm, mate).
Yep: I make no bones about the fact that I DO judge the writers/ speakers in regards to the pronouncements that they make. That is to say, I DO judge the writer/speaker before they "proclaim" their wisdom. So, if somebody posts an article entitled "A Proposal for Race Relations in Today's America" and I see that the writer is David Duke, I will print off a copy in eager anticipation of ... wiping my ass with it rather than reading it. Ditto w/crap coming from Murray Dobbin .
EFL: I have the guts to proclaim my stance. You don't. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
| Well, EFL: I'll give you credit for one thing: You actually have started to use a dictionary. Of course, being a gutless moron, you quoted a "dictionary" definition of 'backhanded compliment' w/o actually naming the source. |
You have to get THAT petty to try to win? Is your argument so weak? Of course, I MADE THE FUCKING THING UP!!!
Hell, I almost didn't even consult a dictionary at all BECAUSE EVERY FUCKING SCHOOLBOY KNOWS A BACKHANDED COMPLIMENT IS AN INSULT. I only did because the fucking children populating this board think they're in a fucking debate on national fucking TV...
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1. backhanded compliment
87 up, 3 down
What might at first sound like a compliment but could/should really be taken as an insult when considered in its entirety.
The Republican Senator would never desecrate the holy institution of marriage by voting to allowing gays to wed; just ask his ex.
by Anon Apr 19, 2005 email it
permalink: del.icio.us
Send to a friend
your email:
their email:
send me the word of the day (it's free)
2. backhanded compliment
15 up, 1 down
An insult disguised as a compliment
"No, honey...I love yours. I don't even like them big."
"Relax, sweetie...you were perfectly adequate."
"Your haircut really slims your face."
Since Michael is a pompous *beep*, I think I'll give him a backhanded compliment.
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2. backhanded - roundabout or ambiguous; "attacks from tht source amounted to a backhanded compliment to his integrity";
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a back-handed compliment British, American & Australian, American a left-handed compliment
a remark which seems approving but which is also negative
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A left-handed compliment is one that sounds like praise but has an insulting meaning. ('Backhanded compliment' is an alternative form.)
YOU figure out where they came from. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
[quote
Again, feel free to cut and paste, because you are lying.
[ |
In the thread http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1012323&highlight=#1012323 you wrote (about two posts below in the link I provided) that
"When you have to call someone a liar to minimize their comments, you're a punk, pure and simple."
These are your own words. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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EFL: You are an absolute child. That's about the nicest thing I can think of to say about you, other than I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not an axe murderer or child molester.
Why don't you discuss the complications of a new trade agreement given the intricacies of the division of powers between the provinces and the federal government as provided for in the BNA Act? You're obviously such an expert on these issues---do enlighten us mere mortals. |
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