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Australia to ban alcohol for Aborigines
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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is slightly related,

If anyone knows of a torrent for "The Chant of Jimmy Blacksmith", I'd appreciate it.

DD
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem of Aboriginal peoples in Australia today makes the Israeli-Palestinian question look like a piece of cake.
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deadman



Joined: 27 May 2006
Location: Suwon

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BJWD wrote:
Quote:
Well, I imagined it would supplement their current education, not replace it.


I think one of the major problems is that they are not being educated. Adding more education to the existing education in the hopes of educating them when they are already not participating in education is naive, at best. If they drop out at 14-16, and don't really attend in any meaningful way before that, you can teach them whatever you want. It isn't going to change anything.


You're imagining a pretty narrow and unworkable application of the idea. It's not adding quantity, but changing the focus. At least this way they are learning things that are actually meaningful to them personally.

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Perhaps this issue is deeper than superficial changes (along predictable mulitcult lines) to the education system.


Its not a magic pill. It's a good practice that will have a small but cumulative positive effect.

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Do you object to keeping alive and passing on traditional knowledge?


As opposed to what, real knowledge? What is "traditional knowledge" and how does it differ from "knowledge"?


What is traditional knowledge? Aboriginal art, languages, culture and history.

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Sorry, but this sounds like tripe to me. Rather then a bunch of guilt-ridden whites teaching them about their "traditional" culture,


You think whites are going to teach it to them? Rolling Eyes Gimme a break. They will learn it from their tribal elders. This will also have the effect of increasing respect for themselves and their communities.
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perhaps it would be best just to expect from them what you would any Australian kid.


That's not working so well.
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Will "traditional knowledge" get them jobs? Is "traditional knowledge" valued on a construction site or a fishing boat?

Of course it will - on a "traditional" construction site, or a "traditional" fishing boat (a canoe) Laughing

But thats not the point. They'd be more likely to actually look for a job than sniff glue or petrol all day
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Are you worried it will interfere with their assimilation?


Are they being assimilated at all? I don't know, but if the situation is at all similar to Canada, assimilation is a far away dream. Sobriety first, and maybe one or two two parent households to start.


The idea that the black man should be "assimilated" into white society was a major factor in the problems Australian Aboriginies face today. It was a disastrous policy. Forget assimilation. As a goal, it's pointless, and the means to get there are socially harmful.
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A very reasonable goal would be a statistically significant reduction in domestic violence, sexual abuse, violence, general thuggery, addiction and unemployment over a 10 year period. How this will be done, I don't know.

Well, I do, and I just told you. If you still can't see it, don't worry! It's not your problem anyway.

In New Zealand there are Maori universities which teach traditional knowledge in the Maori language. This led to
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a Maori 'renaissance' involving agriculture, religion, health and language. On a grass roots level, it was the women who brought about the fundamental reclamation of the early education of children, despite often having gone without this indigenous education themselves. An education from early childhood to tertiary level based on indigenous values and methods gives the Maori population (13% of New Zealanders) a firm base from which to confront the effects of 'globalization'.


according to some random internet quote.

http://www.worldcivilsociety.org/report/EN/06/16-jul-02/summ_16.18.html

That *beep* works! Is it really so much to ask that we get even the most basic program underway n Australia?
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jinju



Joined: 22 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me be a little un-PC.

A lot of good "traditional knowledge" is doing them. Where are these tribal elders when the rest of the tribe is drinking itself into oblivion. I think they face a much larger problem than passing on some stupid myths. Like, how to stop drinking yourself to death and not give your babies to pedophiles for sexual abuse.
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'd be useful to look at history and how cultures have gradually assimilated in the past, as a model.

Usually it takes several centuries. Australia has had only 2.

I see a lot of patronising racist type talking here.Not exactly helpful or positive.

Australia struck me as a pretty darn racist/ redneck place at times, regarding attitudes to aborigines and asians.

I saw angry drunken aborigines: i saw well-spoken, amiable aborigines: it varied from area to area.

I would say that the overriding factor needed is for aborigines to be accepted into white society- education, jobs and so forth- as well as maintaining their traditions and culture in their own areas. Gradually the prejudices will break down. I don't think the free handout/ welfare state culture is doing anyone any good. They need to know they are not simply exotic decorations, paid to "go away", in todays modern australia.
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insam



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this has got to be a joke. how embarrassing for australia if true....
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jaganath69



Joined: 17 Jul 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got to agree with Manlyboy as I have spent time working in far northern Queensland and seen the effects of alcohol abuse on the native community first hand. Abuse goes hand in hand as the alcohol economy on reservations takes sex as payment for booze, pitifully small amounts the further away from benefit day you get. Many Aboriginal communities outlaw grog already, this is just extending that. And for those who say it's based on race, I would remind you that the moment someone steps off these reservations and into a wet community, they will be able to buy alcohol regardless of skin colour. This may be a desperate move, but the failure of welfarism may just have necessitated such a move. I'm willing to wait and see if the results are worth it.
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fusionbarnone



Joined: 31 May 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's just a cheapo politician trick for the pending elections; picking on the local underclass who routinely hang themselves in jail, aren't given jobs because they don't look right, etc etc. That's a lot of hopelessness.

I suppose the right wingers feel they're already doing too much for the downtrodden and feel compelled to relieve them of their immoral burdens by making them more responsible with the proceeds of "real" Austalians overflowing generosity. The porn accusation is a popular emotional topic because it can easily be tacked to "the children" and achieves remarkable progress when uncomfortable political/economical directives are about to be introduced.

I remember hearing when the PM's class mates would stick his head in the crapper when he was a schoolboy and felt sorry for the guy. I don't anymore.
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jaganath69



Joined: 17 Jul 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never voted Liberal (conservative in AusPolspeak) in my life, but I'm at a loss to see what the government of the day could do otherwise. Sure there has been neglect, but its a two-way street, with Aboriginals faring little better under Labor. I'm yet to be convinced it's an election year ploy either, as a), Rudd and Labor will no doubt take a small target stance on the issue and b) the majority of the white electorate couldn't care less about what happens on the reservations.
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