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How much are Koreans limited by their soceity?
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JZer



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:48 am    Post subject: How much are Koreans limited by their soceity? Reply with quote

How much in life do Koreans lose out on because of listening to family and simply being afraid of new things? Koreans often study what their parents say and seem to be more influenced by what their parents say.

Is it time for Koreans to get jobs and stop having their mommies and daddies pay for their tuition?
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Bibbitybop



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much in life do eslcafe posters lose out on because of discussing overdiscussed issues that stereotype Koreans?
ESL teachers often get their information from what other ESL teachers say and seem to be influenced by what ESL teachers say.

Is it time for ESL teachers to get off the computer, make true Korean friends and stop having their ignorant rants about Koreans on this forum?
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Captain Courageous



Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Location: Bundang and loving it

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seconded.
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seoulman1



Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Location: Jamsil

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its true. I loved Korea until I was introduced to the 'eslcafe darkside'.
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sojourner1



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose all societies are limited in some ways or another by what their culture dictates. I always felt Americans were very oppressed, unless they are rich and educated. Rich plays a big part, while education is easier achieved when you have the mind and aptitude. Whats tough is being educated with high ambitions, but financially poor. I see finances to be the real limitation in all societies today, not so much culture although it used to be that culture ruled everything about living life. Now it's money and desire, regardless of nationality.
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Tokki1



Joined: 14 May 2007
Location: The gap between the Korean superiority and inferiority complex

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i before e, except after c, or when it sounds 'eh' as in neighbour and weigh
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vox



Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Location: Jeollabukdo

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: How much are Koreans limited by their soceity? Reply with quote

JZer wrote:
How much in life do Koreans lose out on because of listening to family and simply being afraid of new things? Koreans often study what their parents say and seem to be more influenced by what their parents say.

Is it time for Koreans to get jobs and stop having their mommies and daddies pay for their tuition?


Every morning before I start classes, our principal takes a few kids from the various grades and marches them into my office for free talking in English. When he's not present the elementary school kids talk about really cool complex stuff. This morning they were discussing (in English) what makes art and music beautiful to them (a music festival is coming up) but they also recently discussed how their ideas of national problems had changed because of recent trips they made to North Korea and Japan, as a school field trip.

Then the principal walked in smiling and enthusiastic, intentionally put my bike helmet backwards on his head, sat down among them trying to be Mr. Accessible and Cool, and it was all 'what's your name' and 'where are you from' the whole conversation shut right down. And their faces went stone serious. They knew this was serious business, accommodating their principal's utter and complete undershooting of their abilities.

This is a clear-cut classic textbook case example of ........












......nothing. Because my principal and my school are not Korea. They are one small part of it. They demonstrate cultural mechanisms in place. But so does Samsung corporate culture. If my principal and his unfortunate underlings were all of Korea, Hyundai and heavy industries and the world's #1 ship builders could never happen here. Which is why I'm ending my visit to this thread. Thanks for the snacks.

I don't read like I feel, do I? I just came back from a new fresh fish restaurant that just opened this week. I was afraid to try new things so I had to get tanked to eat the raw bone-mashed flesh of cute little fish I'd rather name and learn idiosyncracies of than eat. But wasabe just has this effect of cleaning you right out, you know?

Getting back to stereotypes, do Koreans have access to Star Trek re-runs? I think no. Could it not then be argued that they are relatively liberated by the absence of Star Trek re-runs? Because those things sure as hell defined a generation of underachievers back home, bye, lemme tell ya (no I didn't watch it for long, I hated Star Trek and failed to see the point of watching such bad art backdrops and sexy women painted green and wearing antennae) I think Koreans are culturally limited by the absence of such green antennae-toting women, esp. those of Captain Kirk the great space Ulysses, further vindicating their fears of alien residents and interracial marriages.
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captain kirk



Joined: 29 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: How much are Koreans limited by their soceity? Reply with quote

vox wrote:
I think Koreans are culturally limited by the absence of such green antennae-toting women, esp. those of Captain Kirk the great space Ulysses, further vindicating their fears of alien residents and interracial marriages.


Everybody was interested in space when Star Trek came out. And the economy was booming. The Apollo missions were on. People were thinking about space. What if we could go beyond the moon? With that to go on a prime time show like Star Trek could be flown. Yes, Star Trek is a stupid TV show, but it's less stupid than most TV shows. When I was a kid it seemed to be the best thing on TV. When you're a kid you're mind is elastic. So was Star Trek. Koreans ARE missing out on this show AND the sixties social revolution. Yes, both are silly and led people astray into stupidities but they loosened people up.

On the other hand America and Canada do seem silly places after all that, anyway, or because of. Joking with Koreans seems the best way to communicate with them. A poster recently said, 'Koreans are a barrel of laughs'. Koreans who are serious seem limited, stuck up, mentally/culturally seized. Then someone farts. They forget themselves. That's a good thing. TOO MUCH drinking going on in Korea, tho, IMHO. Social controls are numerous but as foreigners we're outside of them. It's a nice life really. For us.
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JZer



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is it time for ESL teachers to get off the computer, make true Korean friends and stop having their ignorant rants about Koreans on this forum?


No, if I sat on my computer I would not have rants. It is the fact that I date Korean women and have Korean friends that leads to my rants. The fact that a women can obviously like me but be too afraid to go on a date because of what others think.
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vox



Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Location: Jeollabukdo

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: How much are Koreans limited by their soceity? Reply with quote

captain kirk wrote:
vox wrote:
I think Koreans are culturally limited by the absence of such green antennae-toting women, esp. those of Captain Kirk the great space Ulysses, further vindicating their fears of alien residents and interracial marriages.


Everybody was interested in space when Star Trek came out. And the economy was booming. The Apollo missions were on. People were thinking about space. What if we could go beyond the moon? With that to go on a prime time show like Star Trek could be flown. Yes, Star Trek is a stupid TV show, but it's less stupid than most TV shows. When I was a kid it seemed to be the best thing on TV. When you're a kid you're mind is elastic. So was Star Trek. Koreans ARE missing out on this show AND the sixties social revolution. Yes, both are silly and led people astray into stupidities but they loosened people up.

On the other hand America and Canada do seem silly places after all that, anyway, or because of. Joking with Koreans seems the best way to communicate with them. A poster recently said, 'Koreans are a barrel of laughs'. Koreans who are serious seem limited, stuck up, mentally/culturally seized. Then someone farts. They forget themselves. That's a good thing. TOO MUCH drinking going on in Korea, tho, IMHO. Social controls are numerous but as foreigners we're outside of them. It's a nice life really. For us.


You're so spot-freakin-on about Star Trek lighting the imagination of a generation. But so often the geiger needle on the 'this episode is so gay' o-meter would bury itself in the red... the show (the first series) seemed like a big Gene Roddenberry "ha ha what-if" laugh fest at the expense of the audience. More often than not it prompted me to get off the couch and go outside because of that 13-year old Dungeons & Dragons feeling. You always hoped this would be the day you would go on the big romantic adventures infiltrating caves, slaying ancient red dragons, unearthing soul-sucking swords, but many times you're just looking at your pimply dungeon master referee and thinking, "why am I fighting yet another giant rust monster for the 50th time? where do these things live anyway? Do they have children?"

The real question about Koreans and their limitations is: do they have rust monsters in WoW or Starcraft?
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Bramble



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bibbitybop wrote:
How much in life do eslcafe posters lose out on because of discussing overdiscussed issues that stereotype Koreans?
ESL teachers often get their information from what other ESL teachers say and seem to be influenced by what ESL teachers say.

Is it time for ESL teachers to get off the computer, make true Korean friends and stop having their ignorant rants about Koreans on this forum?


I agree with this, and with what Sojourner1 said. Good points.

To the OP: If you really care about this person, why do you write about her so disparagingly on a message board? Would you want someone to write those things about you? Are you really concerned about how much she's being limited by her society, or is it all about you, you, you? Does she have any reason to be afraid that she'll be left with nothing if she leaves her family for you? Why don't you work on being a real friend to her and show her you're a trustworthy person?

This is all none of my concern, obviously, but the viciousness of your post honestly upsets me. Why not be a little nicer?
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seoulsucker



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: The Land of the Hesitant Cutoff

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bibbitybop wrote:
make true Korean friends


Come on, dude. Rolling Eyes

While I have quite a few, this is not as easy as it sounds, and not just in Korea. 3 plus years of sifting through countless shallow friendships with transparent agendas, I feel lucky to have met some good folks.

I'm all for it, but don't make it sound like you can just walk down the street and make true friends here lickety split. It's tough to do ANYWHERE, bro.

Get over yourself.
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Homer
Guest




PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bibbitybop makes a very good point....people here do tend to over analyse every detail of Korean life under a microscope. But they often do so by working only on surface impressions or what they see in everyday life. This just leads to surface skimming stereotypes in my opinion.

The OP makes what sound like demeaning sweeping comments on Korean people based on something he or she judges from his perspective as if that perspective (I assume the values from his culture-country) is the better way of doing things (I could be wrong here).


Koreans do things their own way and who are we to judge that this is inferior to our own or to pass judgement on it? What makes us so superior or so qualified to pass social judgement on a people?
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fusionbarnone



Joined: 31 May 2004

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nationalism and it's manifestations are most the most noticeable aspect in Korea sold(disguised) to the average Korean as patriotism (affection for country and the past) in order to give politicians and captains of industry more leverage over the population. If nationalism can be defined as the pursuit of power and prestige(George Orwell) than Koreans are'nt too bothered about limitations especially from what an ESL teacher employed by them is trying to point out. Perhaps, an Alvin Toffler would be listened to, or a waegook with twenty years experience in-country would be worthy of an audience interested in concerned talk about limitations.

I think the Koreans have mastered the art of outsourcing intellectual skills, raw resources acquisition, tech. hardware manufacture, ship building, car production therefore, all the rest of the percieved societal skills can be learnt later at leisure is probably their thought. The trickle down effect that western politicians promise (and fail marvelously) really does work in Korea. Can be seen in the quality roads, municipals, health care, cheap high quality clothes, food, and higher living standards as opposed to twenty years ago.

It could be said, that in order to view a culture it's neccessary to be completely honest about why we feel the need to generalise and offer guidance or seek an audience. Where did we acquire the notion of difference and how do we percieve it in relation to ourselves/western societal attitudes. The same could be said of a caucasion's life experiences to that of a non-white/east asian/black person both in their home country and in their host country. It is not the same. For someone to say someone else has to change could be percieved as arrogant so the chore than is to locate the origin of this notion of difference in the person saying theirs a problem.

I think Koreans are busy with winning (which they're are doing) to worry about what previously unemployed arts students have to say.
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Bibbitybop



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seoulsucker wrote:
Bibbitybop wrote:
make true Korean friends


Come on, dude. Rolling Eyes

While I have quite a few, this is not as easy as it sounds, and not just in Korea. 3 plus years of sifting through countless shallow friendships with transparent agendas, I feel lucky to have met some good folks.

I'm all for it, but don't make it sound like you can just walk down the street and make true friends here lickety split. It's tough to do ANYWHERE, bro.

Get over yourself.


While it may be hard at first to make good Korean friends, having a negative attitude towards Koreans (especially ones learned from reading this website), will obstruct a chance of true friendship when it comes along.


JZer, I think your OP rant is valid in some cases and giving an example of some of your first-hand experiences would've been better than a sweeping generalization.
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