Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Xerxes]

I just found out today that one had, and that I had already missed her wake. I am not sure how to feel about this and it is certainly very very disturbing. She was a hell of a writer. God! I should have gone to her wake. I found the news too late. I knew her too well for me to pass it by, as if I could.

I saw her in a restaurant nearby the hakwon a few weeks ago facing away from the entrance and hunched over her food. As pretty as she is, she was wearing a hooded wool coat in the late spring weather with the hood drawn over her head. I walked up to her table after I had eaten (having dined by myself too), just then recognizing her, and I gave my regards, thinking nothing of her outlandish dress considering the weather.

Another time, she was without a ride home one day and she needed a ride to her home so late into the night (10 pm or so), so I offered her taxi fare when she was obviously so upset that her mother had not come by to pick her up. She seemed strangely distraught that her mother was not there to pick her up and she absolutely refused my money. I thought that her insistence was too much over the top.

Should I have realized her distraught state, I wish I could have said something, done something. GOD! why are the teen years so messed up for so many teens. Why is life so fragile and so thoroughly fucked!

I am having a drink or ten now. I don't know how I can teach tomorrow.

(I would prefer not to have the usual ironic quips on this thread, my eulogy of sorts to her. I will flame you to high heaven.)

[blaseblasphemener]

Sounds like you cared about her more than most. My condolences.

[Xerxes]

The crazy thing, blaseblasphemener, is that she was so caring and so good spirited herself. Except for those two weird incidents, I would not have thought her capable of suicide, or even considered her boarderline.

She jumped off of her apartment building. I think I shall not be able to forget her falling consciously off of the building in an expression she wears in class, as if nothing is wrong, and then have it crushed. I cannot get that out of my mind.

[Fresh Prince]

My condolences also.

[Woland]

I'm very sorry to hear this. My sympathies are with you. Perhaps you should go to see her family or talk with the other students who were her friends to let then know that you remember her, too, and cared.

[Homer]

Xerxes,

My sympathies and it is tough to deal with this. If you feel bad about missing the wake, you could send a note to the parents (translated in Korean by a friend) to express your condolences.

It is tragic that she chose this path.

[seoulsucker]

Sucks, bro. How old was she?

[Young FRANKenstein]

Friends, yes.
Classmates, yes.
Co-workers, yes.
Profesional colleagues, yes.

Students, no.

[SeoulFinn]

Xerxes,


I'm sorry to hear that. I'm quite sure that there was nothing that you could've done or said to change her mind. So you shouldn't be to hard on yourself. I hope that you'll feel better soon and won't have to face this same tragedy again.



OFF TOPIC:

I'm in the process of collecting data about Korean students and young adults (20-39) who chose to end their lives. Anyone who's can spare few minutes and is willing to share their stories with me, please send me a PM. Thank you. I'm mainly interested about the following variables:


- age
- sex
- family background
- educational and/or occupational background
- religious background
- are there other family members who suicided
- previous attempt(s) if any
- means of suicide
- reason(s) behind suicide or suicide attempts(s)

I'm also interested to hear your thoughts on the acceptability/disapproval of suicide in Korea. Do you think that suicide is more acceptable here in Korea than back at home? If so, in what situation it is acceptable?

[RACETRAITOR]

Xerxes, I don't think you could've seen any warning signs from those two encounters. We've all known girls who've had way stranger outbursts and it didn't lead them to commit suicide.

Here's a bit of a rant for SeoulFinn, but not in any way related to a student. I think suicide is seen very differently here. Whereas in our country we look for internal causes for why someone committed suicide, here they look for external causes. For instance, Xerxes questions her internal thoughts, her depression, her body image (I think), and her relationship with her mother. A Korean would look at her grades, her social life, her love life, and so on.

Now here's my suicide story that really boils my blood. A Korean girl I was dating told me this story about when she was in high school.

A guy in her class had a crush on her but she wasn't too interested in him. Still, he was kind of obsessed with her. She started dating someone else and he started dating someone else, and everything looked okay. Still everyone remembered she was the one he had a crush on. One day he left her a message, and she ignored it. Then a few days later he and his girlfriend were found dead together. It's unclear whether it was murder-suicide or suicide pact, but the former is definitely more likely.

And guess who got the blame. My girlfriend, who he loved and obviously committed suicide over because he couldn't have her. She became an outcast in the school, and everyone would look at her as if to say "There's the girl that made that guy commit suicide." They had the usual Korean funeral, in which she was treated poorly by the guy's entire family. Never mind the fact that he very well could have killed another girl.

Since this is Korea, they have a funeral for this guy every year. A couple years ago my girlfriend got an invitation to come to the funeral, and she showed up, glad they were reaching out to her. She was subjected to the same accusing stares by the murder-suicide boy's family and friends. They still held her accountable for his death, ten years after the fact.

In short, blame the survivor. If she ever goes back to one of these funerals, I'm going to show up drunk and holler "So where's the funeral for the chick he killed?"

In short, rather than accept a tragedy of a messed up kid, people are busy looking for external causes, blaming the survivors. I don't think you can be held responsible if someone else commits suicide.

[BuHaoChi]

.....

[RACETRAITOR]

I actually kind of envy Korean culture for the lack of prevalence of mood-altering drugs. These days if someone in North America feels a little sad, they think there's something wrong with their brain and take medication to cure it. It brings its own consequences.

[The Bobster]

Xerxes, you da man. Took courage to bring this to us, and I hope some small thing any one or two of us might utter in our ignorance can help you at this moment. It's a sad time for you, and these forums are not always a safe place to bring your pain.

Suicide, in my experience, seems to happen a lot to people who are young and smart and creative. Something about thinking outside the box, it can induce a sadness and a separation from the rest of the world and the people in it, and a desire to be close to God with no vehicle to take you there ... usually, if such people make it past age 30, they will be okay, though there are exceptions. I don't know about cultural factors, I'll be interested if anything somes of SeoulFinn's study. My gut feeling is that it's a human thing rather something sets one country apart from others, but I could be wrong.

Never happened with one of my students, not yet, but several friends and acquaintances, yes - and I came close myself, once upon a time. Fortunately, some people around me noticed how close to the edge I was and reached a hand out before I drove the car over the guardrail.

Xerxes, the main thing to remember : you could not have done a thing, unless the girl wanted to climb out of her hole. Some people need help but they don't want it. They are serious, and they will do what they will. And the really hard thing to internalize? And this IS the really hard thing, so please listen, and don't get mad : Maybe ... that's okay. It's a choice, that's all. It's their choice. A hard choice, sure, but for some it's the only one.

Be sad right now, that's appropriate and necessary. But don't blame yourself. Even if you had known, almost certainly, you could not have changed a thing.

[BuHaoChi]

....

[simpleminds]