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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Julius wrote:
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The U.S. is a "me,me" selfish culture where people are in competition far more than co-existence. This is probably true of most materialistic western nations. The communal spirit is absent. in times of crisis it re-emerges and people pull together such as the 2nd world war and so on. But outside of that its dog eat dog.
You will find that 3rd world countries are far more community based...I highly doubt many New Yorkers, Londoners or whatever know their own neighbours |
Does your horse ever stop pooping? This is one of the most simplistic efforts at cultural contrast I've read on these boards. Gimme a break, will ya? New York and London are hardly typical Western communities and many of those who reside there are immigrants from developing nations looking to make a buck or a decent livelihood. The social services afforded them in America far exceed those they get back in their homelands. Don't you have enough horse-sense to know that?
Where are you from? American civic culture has thrived for centuries and not only in times of crisis, thus revealing your utter ignorance on that score.
Materialism isn't endemic to American life. Ever been to India or China or the Philippines? The rich there hole themselves up. In East Asia family comes first; others a distant second. I have repeatedly seen pleas for the rich to contribute to social causes on Chinese TV, for instance, and let's not forget India's "untouchables" and its caste system in general.
You need to get out more. Stop sniffing the kimchi.
caniff wrote:
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| But enough about me. Let's get back to how America is number 1 and/or America is full of greedy, self-centered, murderous pigs. |
Oh, look, how charming: another rabid leftist attack dog.
I
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| came to Korea and married a sugar-mama. Although not rich, I now no longer have to live in a feces-besplattered makeshift teepee under the freeway like I used to back in Boston. |
I'm laughing at your expense. So you admit to being a dishrag from the get-go. Well done, if a bit pathetic. Yet another leftist expat who squanders their wages and then oozes jealousy against those who are more industrious.
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
caniff wrote:
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| But enough about me. Let's get back to how America is number 1 and/or America is full of greedy, self-centered, murderous pigs. |
Oh, look, how charming: another rabid leftist attack dog.
I
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| came to Korea and married a sugar-mama. Although not rich, I now no longer have to live in a feces-besplattered makeshift teepee under the freeway like I used to back in Boston. |
I'm laughing at your expense. So you admit to being a dishrag from the get-go. Well done, if a bit pathetic. Yet another leftist expat who squanders their wages and then oozes jealousy against those who are more industrious.
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Steve, leave off on Caniff, man. He's being tongue-in-cheek. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
caniff wrote:
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| But enough about me. Let's get back to how America is number 1 and/or America is full of greedy, self-centered, murderous pigs. |
Oh, look, how charming: another rabid leftist attack dog.
I
| Quote: |
| came to Korea and married a sugar-mama. Although not rich, I now no longer have to live in a feces-besplattered makeshift teepee under the freeway like I used to back in Boston. |
I'm laughing at your expense. So you admit to being a dishrag from the get-go. Well done, if a bit pathetic. Yet another leftist expat who squanders their wages and then oozes jealousy against those who are more industrious.
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Steve, leave off on Caniff, man. He's being tongue-in-cheek. |
Jesus, someone's meter is broken.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kb6ErLPt4t8
Last edited by caniff on Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Julius: comparing the cosmopolitan megapolises London and New York City to your "laid-back," underdeveloped, equatorial regions has got to be among the most ridiculous comparisons I have ever heard.
Ever spent any time in a "laid-back," equatorial city like Recife in the Brazilian Northeast? I have. How about Caracas or Bogot�? Ever been to Puerto Rico, the world's carjacking capital? Nice, neighborly places, indeed.
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Just more left wing romanticism of poor people and pre-modern social arrangements. Typlical flunky undergrad stuff. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry to have totally destroyed the back-slapping premise of this thread, folks. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Masta_Don wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
If you're so generous, why isn't that you don't want to pay for universal health care? |
Don't know about Stevey, but I don't want to give my money to politicians which is where some of that health care money will go. So it's already a bad investment for everyone paying into it, you get less out of it than your money's worth. Also when there's a lack of choice quality goes down. There's no competition, no incentive, to become more than just a middle of the road government service. |
Whatever. Don't be so eager to eat the BS that politicians hand to you. Have you ever been in a hospital in Canada, the UK or France? They offere top notch service (for free to boot), which is more than you can say if you're in the US without health insurance/insured by an HMO. You wouldn't be paying more taxes. It's a matter of budgeting properly (ie. making sure less of your taxes makes its way into the pockets of military contracters (which is a good thing,right?)). |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| . Have you ever been in a hospital in Canada, the UK or France? They offere top notch service (for free to boot), which is more than you can say if you're in the US without health insurance/insured by an HMO. You wouldn't be paying more taxes. It's a matter of budgeting properly (ie. making sure less of your taxes makes its way into the pockets of military contracters (which is a good thing,right?)). |
France probably has the world'd best heatlh care. Britain and Canada=long long waits for treatment (triage). I wouldn't call that top-notch. But free goes a long way to alleviating that lack of top-notchedness. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| . Have you ever been in a hospital in Canada, the UK or France? They offere top notch service (for free to boot), which is more than you can say if you're in the US without health insurance/insured by an HMO. You wouldn't be paying more taxes. It's a matter of budgeting properly (ie. making sure less of your taxes makes its way into the pockets of military contracters (which is a good thing,right?)). |
France probably has the world'd best heatlh care. Britain and Canada=long long waits for treatment (triage). I wouldn't call that top-notch. But free goes a long way to alleviating that lack of top-notchedness. |
Free? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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WHO indeed ranks France No. 1 in health-care. And thirty-six others stand before America, who stands at No. 37. (Michael Moore hails Cuba as a paragon in SiCKO. Alas, Cuba stands at No. 39 on this list.)
How is everything else in France, by the way? How is the French economy? And why did Nicolas Sarkozy win the election?
People need to stop indicting America for its faults, and exclusively portraying America as fault-ridden, while at the same time craftily or ignorantly ignoring the faults and fault-ridden nature of those they hold against America as models of what America should be.
Because the truth of the matter is everyone is different and their are pros and cons to everything. This indeed we might call "tolerance," my intolerant liberal friends...
And all of this nothwithstanding, America and Americans still have a first-class and admirable tradition of philanthropy and giving. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
How is everything else in France, by the way? How is the French economy? And why did Nicolas Sarkozy win the election?
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Far be it from to laud the French on anything but health care. That country has screwed the proverbial pooch with its race and class relations.
And Tony Parker has the #1 song.
However, because I live in the US, it is the country I am most concerned with criticizing because its improvements help me the most(I'm selfish). Therefore I have no problem pointing out better systems than ours (again, to make my own country better, and help me). |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| ...I live in the US, it is the country I am most concerned with criticizing because its improvements help me the most (I'm selfish). Therefore I have no problem pointing out better systems than ours (again, to make my own country better, and help me). |
Very fine. But, as BJWD already asked you, what are the social, economic, and political costs France's "better system" entails? And is that the course you advocate for Americans: to be more like France?
And, by the way, what does this have to do with America's fine tradition of philanthropy and giving? How do America's health-care problems undermine this? |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| ...I live in the US, it is the country I am most concerned with criticizing because its improvements help me the most (I'm selfish). Therefore I have no problem pointing out better systems than ours (again, to make my own country better, and help me). |
Very fine. But, as BJWD already asked you, what are the social, economic, and political costs France's "better system" entails? And is that the course you advocate for Americans: to be more like France?
And, by the way, what does this have to do with America's fine tradition of philanthropy and giving? How do America's health-care problems undermine this? |
There is no cost. I don't see them as being related. France's problem is its cultural arrogance. It can't fathom why the North Africans living in France are overwhelmed by its past glories, and plus they're fundies--bad mix. It's also rigidly classist, economically stagnant, and nostalgic over martial glories it can never recreate. That said, these are not at all related to its health care.
One could claim overtaxation to achieve such a system, but consider this: it has the best health care while only expending 10% of its GDP, whereas the US spends about 15%. Making the US the largest spender on health care as a % of GDP, which I would actually consider generous--and I said this in so many words in an earlier post.
In fact, I was disagreeing with an earlier post that claimed Americans are not generous when it comes to health care. If you would take the time to scroll back a couple pages, you'll see I stated that America is generous in spending, and therefore relevant to a discussion about phianthropy. Plus, I was only referring to public expenditures, not private. Public expenditures do not equal philanthropy, but it would certainly inidcated a degree of generousness depending on how it's spent.
To sum up, the US's health care is worse than France's. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| There is no cost. I don't see them as being related. France's problem is its cultural arrogance... |
Strange combination of assertions. In any case, you are telling us that France features a free health-care system. And you clarified: "no cost."
Sounds like everybody should do what they do, then. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| There is no cost. I don't see them as being related. France's problem is its cultural arrogance... |
Strange combination of assertions. In any case, you are telling us that France features a free health-care system. And you clarified: "no cost."
Sounds like everybody should do what they do, then. |
Free referred to Canada and UK having no-cost systems that result in long long lines--therefore I was saying that they weren't top notch. Free in the previous post had nothing to do with France's system as 92% of French people have some sort of private (but heavily subsidized) plan. It referred to Canada/UK
"No cost" in the case of France meaning that the other cultural problems it faces aren't related to a health care providing system. In the case of health care, yes, everyone should try to do what they're doing with the French plan, as it seems to be the best going, despite problems of inflation and whatnot. It's not perfect, but it's worth emulating. A country can be totally dysfunctional at some levels and completely amazing at others, just as the U.S. is terrible at crime and drug prevention and amazing at technical/financial innovation, business management, etc.
Unfortunately, American gumption and charity do not automatically make us the best at running civil service bureaucracies. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think the Canadian system is nuts. As is the American. The best system is one that mixes mandatory health savings accounts with government provided insurance. Delivery must be private and fully voluntary. Let firms compete to see who provides the best service for the governments set fee. Use health savings accounts for catastrophic emergencies to cover missed work, meds and disability issues.
Taxation in Canada is so high it can only be described as criminal. Nothing is free is the arctic wasteland of my passport. The parasites get their cut of everything. Canadians do not get good value for their stolen dollars. If one of these parasites said to me that they would take 55% of my lifetime income and provide x,y,z (today�s services) in return, I�d very quickly decline. It is a jack. |
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