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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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Axl Rose
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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 Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| fromtheuk wrote: |
I don't think the U.K. is a paradise for Muslims, it's a hostile place to live.
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That's great news. One doesn't have to be a genius to realize Muslims are about as popular and welcome as anal lice in the UK, but hostile? Splendid. Koreans don't have a rosy view of non-white foreigners either. Mind you, given Korea's participation in the Coalition, I do hope you don't suddenly lose it one day and show up for work donning the traditional dress of nails and explosives.
| fromtheuk wrote: |
| When I walk through Itaewon, most of the westerners look like they have learning difficulties, they are so thick it's unreal! |
I bet those folks can teach English better than you. http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?p=1229331&highlight=#1229331
I doubt you'll even last a year. Mind you, English isn't your native language is it? And your kids are probably unresponsive in disappointment at having you as their teacher and not what they had in mind - a Briton. It's an absolute aberration that you were allowed to be born on English-speaking soil and even more of one that a bearded fundamentalist is now representing Great Britain in Korea. Koreans have a lot of respect for the British/Europeans but that'll soon disappear in your place of work when your co-workers realize they allow poison like you to fester in the suburbs. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| I think many Muslims feel they want to leave your God-forsaken, police states anyway. |
I am also 'from the UK' and I really wish your co-religionists would follow your lead and get back to the prosperous and vibrant Muslim utopias from whence they came. Of course, as long as the welfare cheques are flowing I don't think that will happen. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| I think many Muslims feel they want to leave your God-forsaken, police states anyway. |
I am also 'from the UK' and I really wish your co-religionists would follow your lead and get back to the prosperous and vibrant Muslim utopias from whence they came. Of course, as long as the welfare cheques are flowing I don't think that will happen. |
Maybe we could just give them all crescent badges that say "Muslim." |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I think many Muslims feel they want to leave your God-forsaken, police states anyway. |
I am also 'from the UK' and I really wish your co-religionists would follow your lead and get back to the prosperous and vibrant Muslim utopias from whence they came. Of course, as long as the welfare cheques are flowing I don't think that will happen. |
Maybe we could just give them all crescent badges that say "Muslim." |
But how do we determine who is muslim? Should we kind of follow the nazis' lead and label "muslim" anyone who has at least one muslim grandparent? And what should be our final solution? BJWD surely has a plan... |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I think many Muslims feel they want to leave your God-forsaken, police states anyway. |
I am also 'from the UK' and I really wish your co-religionists would follow your lead and get back to the prosperous and vibrant Muslim utopias from whence they came. Of course, as long as the welfare cheques are flowing I don't think that will happen. |
Maybe we could just give them all crescent badges that say "Muslim." |
But how do we determine who is muslim? Should we kind of follow the nazis' lead and label "muslim" anyone who has at least one muslim grandparent? And what should be our final solution? BJWD surely has a plan... |
That wouldn't make any sense, BB. Islam is a religion, not a race.
The final solution should be an abolition of Islamist government across the world. Islam, as practiced by individuals, would be tolerated and in certain cases even protected. Islam, as a political tenet, would be persecuted and abolished. Islamism needs to die. Islam can stay. Perhaps Islam needs to confront certain Islamist principles in its faith before it can properly be distinguished from Islamism, but to that I cannot speak because I am not a scholar on Islam or Islamic law. |
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fromtheuk
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Axl rose - you can't even speak English, you promised to bring out a new album about 10 years ago and all you've done is have plastic surgery and produced nothing.
You may consider it an aberration I was born on British soil but I think that soil was created by God and is owned by Him, not by the British.
Actually English is my first language Axl, I knew you'd have to stereotype me.
And it amuses me immensely that it upsets you a bearded 'fundamentalist' is representing Britain.
So far so good, my co-workers say I'm a gentleman and are very content with me, and the Koreans have been far more friendly than any Brit I've ever met, which says a lot about them now doesn't it.
I believe it's the South Korean government which is part of the coalition, not the people I work with.
To clarify, it's not allowed in Islam to carry out the kind of attacks you mention.
Asians tend to understand concepts like civility and mutual respect which sadly native Brits lack. And unlike the native English, I am teetotal, not condescending and not a total b+_tard while pretending to be a very sound bloke, like you Axl.
Axl is American, are you British Axl? Shame on you, you're so ashamed of being British, you're trying to be American. |
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fromtheuk
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Oh Kuros,
We all know eventually the Islamic world will have a caliphate, a worldwide Islamic state. And I think the comments you've made will apply to the west by then e.g. they will all be ruled by Shariah law.
So your Mum will be wearing the face veil by then. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| We all know eventually the Islamic world will have a caliphate, a worldwide Islamic state. And I think the comments you've made will apply to the west by then e.g. they will all be ruled by Shariah law. |
There may well be many problems with the world, but most people do not want to return to the 7th century and follow a reprehensible moral code dreamed up by a paedophilic, bloodthirsty desert nomad. People are coming to know the true face of Islam, and it ain't pretty. |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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We all know eventually the Islamic world will have a caliphate, a worldwide Islamic state. And I think the comments you've made will apply to the west by then e.g. they will all be ruled by Shariah law.
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Who is this we?
I am curious though whether you believe wahabism should be the defining face of Islam or whether other views such as sufism, etc would exist in this caliphate?
Plus, would you consider Indonesia, Malaysia as muslim nations to emigrate too as they are less supported by the US than Saudi Arabia, but more liberal in thier expression of Islam?
I do believe that you are trolling, but if not then I pity you as you present the negative side of Islam rather than the positive.
I prefer to listen to Jaganath explain his understanding of Islam, even if I don't always agree as he shows the more beneficial side of Islam.
If you have read the Quran, then maybe you should read the Bible as it came before the Quran and is the basis for many of the writings of the Quaran. The one I prefer is "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword". Its a pity the world hasn't listened and given up on violence 2000 years ago, but some will never listen.
I do fear that political extremist Islam will awaken the evil in Europe and its people and that the first people to suffer will be the moderates, but that is something the future will decide. But lets hope not.
Well Have a good day, trolling from a boat is more fun than trolling in a website. |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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You may consider it an aberration I was born on British soil but I think that soil was created by God and is owned by Him, not by the British.
[There are raving idiots born in every country the Brits were cursed with you.]
Actually English is my first language Axl, I knew you'd have to stereotype me.
[Your first lang can be pig latin, appopraite for a muslim,]
And it amuses me immensely that it upsets you a bearded 'fundamentalist' is representing Britain.
[The beard is a blessing. It covers your face.]
So far so good, my co-workers say I'm a gentleman and are very content with me, and the Koreans have been far more friendly than any Brit I've ever met, which says a lot about them now doesn't it.
I believe it's the South Korean government which is part of the coalition, not the people I work with.
To clarify, it's not allowed in Islam to carry out the kind of attacks you mention.
Asians tend to understand concepts like civility and mutual respect which sadly native Brits lack. And unlike the native English, I am teetotal, not condescending and not a total b+_tard while pretending to be a very sound bloke, like you Axl.
[I am a Candain and a teatotaler as well. My Korean co-workers are tolerent of that.]
Axl is American, are you British Axl? Shame on you, you're so ashamed of being British, you're trying to be American.[/quote]
Please leave soon.
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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About two days after 9/11 i was going to Abby's books past the Mosque.
There were about 4 Korean evangelicals handing out pamphlets to the Islamic men going in and out. Under the watchful eye of the Korean riot police. Two of them, probably Pakistani, took one look, threw them on the ground and spit.
Whack, Whack they were on their knees on the ground and told to pick the pamphlets up with their tounges. They did!
Koreans Christians just love Muslims. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:49 am Post subject: |
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This is a very interesting article, written about Hassan Butt (the writer of the article in the OP), and written by a muslim activist who worked hard (even before 911) to counteract the influence of Islamic fundamentalism/extremism.
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/anas_altikriti/2007/07/the_new_fundamentalism.html
I've cut and pasted what looks relevant to this thread, but I'd recommend reading the full article (see above link).
| Quote: |
Reading Hassan Butt's piece in the Observer, "My plea to fellow Muslims: you must renounce terror", I couldn't help but think of how much his likes have to do with the dire security conditions we all face today. Despite his claim to have repented, I would ask to be forgiven for being less than sympathetic and congratulatory in my tone, as it was probably he and his comrades who stood outside mosques, community centres and lecture halls, heckling and, at times, physically attacking me and my colleagues for talking about the need for dialogue, for reaching out to all human beings and about promoting universal human rights that include all people, regardless of faith, race or colour.
One ugly incident in particular stands out in the memory, when, in Birmingham's Small Heath district on a cold night in 1998, I was jostled and then repeatedly punched by a group of extremists with the sort of affiliations Hassan Butt used to have. As they did so, they hurled abuse of a disgusting nature, accusing me of being an apostate, a "kafir-in-disguise", a sell-out and agent of the British government. Trying to look dignified, composed and happy coming back to my wife and new-born baby was among the hardest feats I had ever attempted in my life.
Now that he has changed sides, rather than see the error in the methodology and ideology to which he once subscribed and which he peddled for years, he has adopted the posture of extremist once again - and is hurling abuse once more, albeit from the opposite side. |
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When preaching this, the likes of al-Muhajiroun, to which Butt belonged, would accuse me of cowardice, of being an illiterate in respect to Islamic sciences and knowledge and of being undoubtedly doomed for an eternity in hellfire. It was a struggle, but a struggle that we were definitely winning. Towards the late 1990s, and prior to the 9/11 attacks, the membership lists of such vile groups were shrinking and their recruitment drives were in a downward spiral.
Among the thousands of professional Muslim men and women today working in the City, with the media, creating solutions for Britain's social and economic problems, and running our schools, transport systems and hospitals, are those whom, at one stage, Butt and his former friends were targeting with their doctrine of hatred and evil, but whom I and my friends managed to win over so that they became citizens of high standing and valuable contributors to our society. Our message was simple, but effective: if you want to create change, you have to get involved. By all means express frustration, vent anger, stand in opposition and demand change, but only through full and positive engagement with the civil structures afforded by society. That is the way of Islam.
For Hassan Butt to now accuse this ideology of mine and of more than a billion Muslims around the world, or to lay the blame for the breakdown in security and social harmony with Islamic theology or the verses of the Qur'an, which he and his fellow extremists not only failed to read or properly interpret, but skewed for their own agendas, is false, misleading and dangerous.
However, our gains were compromised, and our success considerably undermined in the wake of 9/11 and the launch of the "war on terror". I know it because I continue to talk with youngsters who feel that they have no footing within the structure of society, and feel that they are misfits and aliens. It is not the Qur'an that tells them that the only way is to kill non-Muslims. Most of them hardly ever read the Qur'an or frequent mosques. It is the preachers of hate who show them images of slaughtered children in Palestine, raped women in Iraq, burnt-down homes in Afghanistan, and instruct them that it is their duty to avenge those victims by unleashing terror and destruction on the streets of London, Glasgow and Birmingham.
As the new buzzword of evil is now "Islamist", this Islamist asserts that while it would be too simplistic, and possibly even wrong, to lay the blame entirely on this country's foreign policy for the terror threat under which we all live, it is almost beyond question that the government's wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well as its unethical policies in Palestine, Lebanon and elsewhere, have contributed towards the significant resurgence that Hassan Butt's former peers now enjoy. |
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| So, to him and to all those who continue to peddle the same old mantra, we do disown and renounce violence, as Muslims and as human beings. We have done so all along and will continue to do so as a result of our religious and humanitarian obligations - and not because we've just realised the error of our ways as a result of your newly-discovered enlightened ideas. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
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| So, to him and to all those who continue to peddle the same old mantra, we do disown and renounce violence, as Muslims and as human beings. We have done so all along and will continue to do so as a result of our religious and humanitarian obligations - and not because we've just realised the error of our ways as a result of your newly-discovered enlightened ideas. |
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Absolute nonsense. Nonsense.
If it were at all true we would see anti-terrorism marches in muslim cities (including London, which is just about there).
I was and am against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. So I marched. I demonstrated and voiced my opposition to violence. If America attacks iran I will be in the streets again, voicing my rejection of violence. Because I ACTUALLY DO RENOUNCE VIOLENCE.
Until muslims to the same, you are just naive kuffar bigbird. Dumb enough to believe their propaganda and ignorant enough to ignore the truth. People like you are guaranteeing your kuffar children a very dark future. |
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