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Bingo
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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haha.
I love it.
When was Adam created?
When was Eve created?
Is God both male and female?
The Pre-Adamites |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| just alittlecrazy wrote: |
so are saying there is a god who all did this and that the bible is an accurate record of events?
writings from other cultures contain similar information. our god(s) told us to do this in this way etc. in this aspect the bible is not unique and yes it is a sign of the times, something all cultures engaged in.
if you seriously want to critique the bible you have to put it in context.
for example:
were the commandments the given to moses the only ones given from god to man? no, sumerian scripture, which pre-dates hebrew scripture, has this myth. The hebrew scripture and laws have many similarities with the sumerian ones. and was probably the origin of most of the genesis mythical material too. esp. considering abraham is said to have lived in ur, the main sumerian city. |
Aren't there two sets of Ten Commandments in the Bible even?
I find it a little weird that God visited the Israelites and gave them tactical data to help them win wars. And then after a time he stopped giving that sort of information. I'm sure there is archaeological evidence of a lot of these battles and massacres. Chances are the Israelites were just very successful warriors for a while and they attributed their successes to God. Probably every culture has done the same. It doesn't hurt to point out that Yahweh was originally the god of war in the Hebrew pantheon. |
God is a god of justice and wars against injustice. He used the tribe of Israel as a sign onto the world and raised them up to slaughter the nations that were wicked. God could have used anyone, but it so happened to be the Jews.
There is a lot of archaelogical evidence and it clearly reveals that the "myths" of the bible actually happened. The more they find, the more it shows that the bible is in fact a true guide to understanding.
Interesting to note, that most of these types of threads are usually on "Christianity". To me that is another indicator that Christianity has the answers for salvation. I can understand why, because so much is at stake. |
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just alittlecrazy
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: |
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there are many inconsistencies in the bible because it is not one continuously written book. research indicates there were 4 different sources, known as J, E, P, and D, that came together in about 400 BC. See http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rs/2/Judaism/jepd.html.
i think this is where the idea of a hebrew pantheon comes from, 4 views of the same god.
the doco that I mentioned earlier gives a good explanation of how they came together. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
God is a god of justice and wars against injustice. He used the tribe of Israel as a sign onto the world and raised them up to slaughter the nations that were wicked. God could have used anyone, but it so happened to be the Jews.
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Uh, God commanded them to kill all men, boys, and women who've had sex and to turn virgins of all ages into sex slaves. Not exactly a war against injustice. |
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nobbyken
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Location: Yongin ^^
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:39 am Post subject: |
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The Old Testament should be looked at through the New Testament.
Before I came a Believer, 7� years ago, I didn't hate Christians or the Church.
Once I became part of the Church, it all looked pretty different.
I felt love, not hate.
The bible texts, became the living Word.
Sure, some people are judgemental by character, (inside the church and out) but only God can judge.
Is God calling you, but resisting is your answer?
Jesus wants to speak with you, and be your friend through life {and beyond}.
Live and let live.
Respect people with faiths, however imperfect they may appear to you.
Respect that person addicted to drugs or alcohol, ".
Everyone has free will, ".  |
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just alittlecrazy
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: |
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| nobbyken wrote: |
The Old Testament should be looked at through the New Testament.
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why?
the NT was written by greeks who didn't really understand jewish scripture, customs etc. so they misinterpret and misquote jewish scripture, not to mention they throw in greek philosophy.
no wonder so many are confused about religion! |
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Bingo
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: |
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The most fantastical myth of the bible is the resurrection. It seems that every deity of the ancient world died and got resurrected at some point. Jesus was no different. The story writers simply followed the established trend. If Horus and Mithra rose from the dead, by golly if Jesus was going to be competitive he had to rise from the dead too. It was all too predictable.
Another great myth is the exodus from Egypt. You'd think that if some 400,000 Hebrews hung out in the Sinae for 40 years there would be some - just a little bit - of archeaological evidence. But there is absolutely nothing. They can find a campfire and utensils used by a single bedhouin from three thousand years ago, but no evidence of 400,000 people setting up shop for forty years.  |
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Bingo
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Someone's avatar above says 'Jesus insde." But that's an incomplete phrase. Maybe the bottom of the avatar got cut off. Wonder what the completed phrase says? Jesus inside.....his house? his car? Mary Magdelene?  |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| nobbyken wrote: |
The Old Testament should be looked at through the New Testament.
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The Old Testament should be viewed through a historical perspective. No matter what Jesus said a few centuries later, the Israelites wiped out a decent number of competing cultures before they themselves were chased out of their land. The Bible supports these facts as do other historical sources. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:32 am Post subject: |
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You would also think that 400,000 exiting Jews would have had a few run ins with the various Egyptian garrisons spread out across the middle east, including Israel.
I also think that number may be wrong. Doesn't Numbers put the figure at around 2.5 million? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
God is a god of justice and wars against injustice. He used the tribe of Israel as a sign onto the world and raised them up to slaughter the nations that were wicked. God could have used anyone, but it so happened to be the Jews.
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Uh, God commanded them to kill all men, boys, and women who've had sex and to turn virgins of all ages into sex slaves. Not exactly a war against injustice. |
You are right, it seems extreme. However, if you believe that sin is passed on to the third and fourth generation then you would understand this as an act of mercy by God.
Most of the nations that God commanded to kill had turned into disgusting nations that would sacrifice their children to idols, have sex with their animals and not look after their poor or weak. I know this might seem extreme, but by killing the children, they actually were saved from going to hell. Back in that day, children and women were probably treated like animals. So it sounds quite harsh to say, but they were better off being killed and going to Heaven.
Interestingly enough, this is what gets Saul in big kaka with God. He wants to please the people by sparing the King, the women and the animals. However God sees through this power play and cuts Saul out His kingdom.
Like NK says, you have to look at the OT through the lens of the NT. If you don't then it's easy to look back and cherry pick these extreme examples. Also, Israel is not exactly the prime example of excellence. Look at how God is continually provoked to jealousy and has to chastise them with judgments. Even under David, God releases his judgments upon Israel.
Fortunately, Jesus rendered this view of God as an wrathful and angry God as only partial and revealed that His main characteristic is goodness. God is good all the time. Jesus came not to judge man, but to save man. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| Most of the nations that God commanded to kill had turned into disgusting nations that would sacrifice their children to idols, have sex with their animals and not look after their poor or weak |
Seems like propoganda to me. Before pretty much every war ever, people have said stuff like this about an enemy. Sacrificing their children and shagging animals? Classic propoganda meant to demonize the enemy. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
You are right, it seems extreme. However, if you believe that sin is passed on to the third and fourth generation then you would understand this as an act of mercy by God.
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If you want we can stop here. I don't believe that sin can be transmitted from parent to child, and especially not to third or fourth generation. If it were, the Germans are still guilty of WWII.
| fiveeagles wrote: |
I know this might seem extreme, but by killing the children, they actually were saved from going to hell.
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That sounds like something a mass murderer would say before he turns the gun on himself.
| fiveeagles wrote: |
Most of the nations that God commanded to kill had turned into disgusting nations that would sacrifice their children to idols, have sex with their animals and not look after their poor or weak.
Back in that day, children and women were probably treated like animals. So it sounds quite harsh to say, but they were better off being killed and going to Heaven.
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Who were the Israelites to judge them? I'm sure they attacked out of greed for more territory and more prostitutes, not because they thought their victims were immoral.
| fiveeagles wrote: |
Like NK says, you have to look at the OT through the lens of the NT.
If you don't then it's easy to look back and cherry pick these extreme examples.
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What you're basically telling me is to suspend all rational thought.
| fiveeagles wrote: |
Also, Israel is not exactly the prime example of excellence.
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Then why didn't God send someone to murder them and rape their virgins?
| fiveeagles wrote: |
Look at how God is continually provoked to jealousy and has to chastise them with judgments. Even under David, God releases his judgments upon Israel.
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If God were a person, he'd probably be on death row. I don't know how anyone could worship that thing, New Testament or not.
I'm not even saying that committing genocide back in that era was wrong, because obviously all those nation-states or whatever they were were all vicious. However, God turning a nation's worth of virgins into whores is not mercy. The men, boys, and sexually experienced women who He in his mercy chose to slaughter were the lucky ones in that deal.
This is how I see it: there was no God commanding anybody. One tribe defeated another and raped, pillaged, and murdered the population. All that stuff about God doing it for various reasons are floccinaucinihilipilifications. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| All that stuff about God doing it for various reasons are floccinaucinihilipilifications. |
Easy Racetraitor! No need for that kind of language round here.
And FiveEagles, what are you on about? |
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