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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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 Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
And anyone who doesn't think Iran and Syria are just waiting to jump into the breach should the U.S. pull out now should be forced to stick his pipe where the sun don't shine, as they say. |
Iran and Syria have rather hierarchical and easily identifiable Shia power structures compared to AQ, in terms of financing and infrastructure. AQ are a bunch Wahabists who are theological and political Luddites. I agree completely with what you said, and I don't see how what I said and what you said are mutually exclusive. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="jkelly80"]
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
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what is true is that AQ fights for the Caliphate and the Khomeni followers have been out to get the US. |
That's true. There's probably Tajik groups longing for the days of the Il-Khan empire and Ghanans who miss Songhay and Dahomey. So what? There's a difference between rhetoric and feasible results. Anyone who truly believes that AQ actually ever has a shot at establishing a Caliphate has no business discussing current events. Their terror tactics are certainly not to be ignored or dismissed, but I doubt even most of AQ's higher ups truly believe this crap about Caliphate, but it's a good way to recruit disaffected fundies. |
What it means is that the US is not going to be able to appease Al Qaeda to get them to stop attacking.
The AQ higher ups actually do believe it.
That is why they are in with groups like Jemaah Islamiyah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jemaah_Islamiyah
What does Jemaah Islamiyah fight for? The Same thing as the Moroccan combat group.
Were the US do what Bin Laden demands the next day his group would issue 10 more demands.
That is why Ron Paul is wrong.
But if you want to know what Al Qaeda thinks here is it they wrote it down
themselves.
Letter from al-Zawahiri to al-Zarqawi
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/report/2005/zawahiri-zarqawi-letter_9jul2005.htm
Reunified Islam: Unlikely but not wholly radical
Restoration of Caliphate resonates with mainstream Muslims
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10845206/
The Caliphate: One nation, under Allah, with 1.5 billion Muslims
By James Brandon | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
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The Caliphate: One nation, under Allah, with 1.5 billion Muslims
By James Brandon | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
AMMAN, JORDAN � The three middle-aged men sitting in an Indian restaurant in Jordan's capital scarcely look like Islamic revolutionaries. They are smartly dressed in Western-style suits and sip thoughtfully from cans of Pepsi as they share their plan to reshape the Muslim world.
"[President] Bush says that we want to enslave people and oppress their freedom of speech," says Abu Abdullah, a senior member of Hizb ut-Tahrir, the Party of Liberation. "But we want to free all people from being slaves of men and make them slaves of Allah."
Hizb ut-Tahrir says that Muslims should abolish national boundaries within the Islamic world and return to a single Islamic state, known as "the Caliphate," that would stretch from Indonesia to Morocco and contain more than 1.5 billion people.
It's a simple and seductive idea that analysts believe may someday allow the group to rival existing Islamic movements, topple the rulers of Middle Eastern nations, and undermine those seeking to reconcile democracy and Islam and build bridges between East and West.
"A few years ago people laughed at them," says Zeyno Baran, a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute and the leading expert on Hizb ut-Tahrir. "But now that [Osama] bin Laden, [Abu Musab al-] Zarqawi, and other Islamic groups are saying they want to recreate the Caliphate, people are taking them seriously."
Even more moderate Muslim groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt pay lip-service to the ideal of reestablishing the Caliphate, leaving less ideological space for Muslims who want to move toward Western models of democracy.
"The Caliphate is a rallying point between the radicals and the more moderate Islamists," says Stephen Ulph, a senior fellow at the Jamestown Foundation. "The idea of a government based on the Caliphate has a historical pedigree and Islamic legitimacy that Western systems of government by their very nature do not have." |
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0510/p01s04-wome.html
Al Qaeda Has a Plan and Here It Is
by James Dunnigan
September 24, 2005
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles2005/20059240226.asp
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:05 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jkelly80 wrote: |
| There's probably Tajik groups longing for the days of the Il-Khan empire and Ghanans who miss Songhay and Dahomey. . |
What the hell do Tajiks have to do with the Mongolian Il-Khanate? |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Olberman forgot to accuse Bush and his cronies of creating a rather large Iraqi refugee problem inside and outside of the country.
We don't EVER hear the admin say the word "refugee" when talking about Iraq do we 
No, of course we don't. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Considering that the refugees' plight is likely better than their fate if they remained in Iraq, or if Saddam was still in charge, I'd say that's a lesser concern.
And by the way, many of those refugees are not only fleeing violence in general; many are also political refugees.
Last I heard many are being welcomed in Western countries where they can begin a better life.
Now, once again, put the blame squarely on those who create the problem: the extremists within Iraq and their supporters in Syria and Iran. This situation was inevitable; the Anglo-American invasion only hastened the civil war that has been simmering for two decades thanks to the Baathists.
I realize it's tempting for those on the Left to focus their gaze on the U.S., however, especially when they're from Canada.  |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Considering that the refugees' plight is likely better than their fate if they remained in Iraq, or if Saddam was still in charge, I'd say that's a lesser concern.
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Many of these refugees are people who are displaced within Iraq. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| remember the Kurds ran from Saddam to Turkey. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| jkelly80 wrote: |
| There's probably Tajik groups longing for the days of the Il-Khan empire and Ghanans who miss Songhay and Dahomey. . |
What the hell do Tajiks have to do with the Mongolian Il-Khanate? |
Nothing. I read the map wrong. Jagadai Khanate? |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Now, once again, put the blame squarely on those who create the problem: the extremists within Iraq and their supporters in Syria and Iran. This situation was inevitable; the Anglo-American invasion only hastened the civil war that has been simmering for two decades thanks to the Baathists.
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The reason that there are/were conditions that cause a civil war is because of the Anglo-Americans. The Anglos went ahead and combined three Ottoman provinces that really didn't like each other, and now we have Iraq in all its glory. Also thank the British for picking Sunnis to run the state as well.
And you're surprised that Shia states on the borders of a majority Shia state have an interest in the goings on of the most geographically strategic state in the region? Especially when the majority population of Shias in Iraq had almost no say in the previous gov't? That's naive. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
It was ALL a freaking lie |
That is crazy talk. |
Wake up. It's July, 2007. Everyone knows. If you haven't heard about this, ask the person sitting next to you.
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
It was ALL a freaking lie |
That is crazy talk. |
Wake up. It's July, 2007. Everyone knows. If you haven't heard about this, ask the person sitting next to you.
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You forgot to end you post with your chant "End it. End it now," Bobster.  |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
It was ALL a freaking lie |
That is crazy talk. |
Wake up. It's July, 2007. Everyone knows. If you haven't heard about this, ask the person sitting next to you.
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You forgot to end you post with your chant "End it. End it now," Bobster. |
Thanks for reminding me. Oh, just noticed. YOU forgot to say anything at ALL.
This war is bad for America. We should end it . End it now.
Happy now? I am. |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
It was ALL a freaking lie |
That is crazy talk. |
Wake up. It's July, 2007. Everyone knows. If you haven't heard about this, ask the person sitting next to you.
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You forgot to end you post with your chant "End it. End it now," Bobster. |
Thanks for reminding me. Oh, just noticed. YOU forgot to say anything at ALL.
This war is bad for America. We should end it . End it now.
Happy now? I am. |
From waydowntown BANG |
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