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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| As for Japan, dude, it's the other way round. Japan took most of it's art style from Korea, and a significant portion of the early population came from this peninsular. The Japs are good at refining others ideas, and with their economic dominance have been able to promote their culture to the world better than China and Korea, to the point that when the average person thinks "oriental", they think Japan stuff. Korea's culture did not come from Japan. |
The older stuff went from Korea to Japan, but the modern Korean culture (fashion, K-pop, building styles, education, administration, etc.) is heavily derived from Japan. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The older stuff went from Korea to Japan, but the modern Korean culture (fashion, K-pop, building styles, education, administration, etc.) is heavily derived from Japan. |
Right, but which is more at the heart of a culture, the new or old stuff?
K-pop defining Korea? No thanks! |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Also, there were several posts up there about 'Korean' being diluted with English words.. which is quite true.
BUT.. the cool and interesting thing is that the 'Korean' language in South Korea and the 'Korean' language in North Korea are going in vastly different directions.
There are SO MANY 'English' words infilterating and being adoped in South Korea with its similarly very Korean pronounciation which is often misunderstood by native English speakers.
Anyhow, the main point is that the Korean language in North Korea has NOT gone that way.. and its going to be REAL interesting someday because of this.. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| I think people fail to account for one simple fact when they worry about a language taking on too many foreign words. English, to make a example, has over 160,000 words, and I presume most languages have at least 100,000. The sheer numbers mean that the influx of new words makes up such a miniscule percentage of the languge, and will never significantly change it's character. Hangukmal is safe from the ravages of English y'all. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: The challenge for gyopos |
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| Drakoi wrote: |
| This pretty mcuh rings true in my experience. Unfortunately De Mente makes no mention of adoptees who neither left willingly nor were given ANY instruction in Corean etiquette. For this subgroup within a subgroup within a subgroup, the challenge is even greater. But there is help |
Let's get back to the topic at hand. First off, most gyopos are HARDLY self-pitying as Posco would like to think. Many realize that going back to the motherland is a challenge. I think the fact that the original poster called it a "challenge" rather than "plight" attests to that.
As a gyopo who lived nine years in Korea, I believe that much of what Mente said is true but I made a life and social circle for myself in Korea. Much of the exclusivity is based on school ties and the like, not to mention lifelong friendships that cannot be just made overnight. Then family ties come into play. One of the three Kim brothers at the Ssangyong Group grew up and attended school abroad but because of his blood ties, he was groomed for a major position at the conglomerate. I also met several "dip-kids," or offspring of diplomats, who chose to live in Korea. The only thing different about them from Koreans is that they can speak English and have experienced living abroad.
Let's not also forget the Koreans who emigrated abroad and then returned after being offered plum positions. Major peeps at the groups had good jobs in the US or abroad and were offered positions back in Korea (most of them have advanced degrees). And quite a few talents in the Korean entertainment scene grew up abroad (i.e. Park Joon-hyung of the pop group GOD and his fiancee Han Go-eun, actress Lee Jenny and singer Lee Hyun-woo).
Another thing overlooked is the fault of gyopos themselves. Part of the reason why I had a good time in Korea is because I generally avoided gyopos, particularly the ones from Southern California. Many act arrogant and the like, do not try to learn Korean and also cause discord. Many are even worse than the most screwed up woegooks. Yeah, Korea can be exclusive but blame is a two-way street.
The adoptee issue is a complicated one and is something for another post.
Last edited by Yaya on Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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buddy bradley
Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The Beyond
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| North Korean is heavily-influenced by Russian. |
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buddy bradley
Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The Beyond
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
Many act arrogant and the like, do not try to learn Korean and also cause discord. Many are even worse than the most screwed up woegooks. Yeah, Korea can be exclusive but blame is a two-way street.
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I said this about black people once. I got told that I was generalizing. Why would anyone think that I'm a general? I don't even have colours (of any sort). |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I was really disappointed in the way this thread went. I was hoping to read some interesting posts about a particular group's experiences here. I think gypop's slant on things would/could be enlightening. |
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buddy bradley
Joined: 24 Aug 2003
Location: The Beyond
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I think gypop's slant on things would/could be enlightening. |
Gypop? Is that like J-Pop without the J? |
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matthewwoodford
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Location, location, location.
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 5:46 pm Post subject: pedantic point |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| I think people fail to account for one simple fact when they worry about a language taking on too many foreign words. English, to make a example, has over 160,000 words, and I presume most languages have at least 100,000. The sheer numbers mean that the influx of new words makes up such a miniscule percentage of the languge, and will never significantly change it's character. Hangukmal is safe from the ravages of English y'all. |
I looked this up once when I was a student and the estimated number of words in the English language is 650,000. The reason I looked it up was an argument with a German friend who maintained German had far more words than English...and was shocked to be proved wrong. 
Of course English has freely adopted words from loads of other languages yet these still remain a minuscule percentage of the language and certainly do not change its character. I seriously doubt Korean is under threat from English. On the other hand, a Korean once told me the 'hago issoyo' pattern in Korean was originally copied from or at least influenced by English present continuous, which seems more worrying.
Matt |
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Zed
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: pedantic point |
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| matthewwoodford wrote: |
a Korean once told me the 'hago issoyo' pattern in Korean was originally copied from or at least influenced by English present continuous, which seems more worrying.
Matt |
Don't get to worried about it. It sounds to me like one of those things Koreans 'say'.
However, if there is something to that I'd like to hear more but it sounds like a load of BS to me. How would you establish a connection here? |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| looked this up once when I was a student and the estimated number of words in the English language is 650,000 |
I understand this, but from my reading, the 160,000 figure was derived from conversational and academic language, and the other number is bumped up by the myriad technical, scientific, and engineering words we have.
Actually, I also read that you can be converstionally fluent about day to day matters ( if not impressively eloquent ) with just 5,000 words of English. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 1:04 am Post subject: Re: The challenge for gyopos |
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| Yaya wrote: |
| I generally avoided gyopos, particularly the ones from Southern California. |
This stands out. I've met various Gyopos. Generally quite cool. But LA Gyopos.. they seem really thuggish.. true? |
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CanKorea
Joined: 23 Jun 2003
Location: Pyeongchon
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:51 am Post subject: |
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I'm a gyopo from Canada and I've been in Korea for a month and a half. So far, I haven't come across anything malicious in the way that I'm treated. Usually, I'm apologetic when I acknowledge my utter lack of Korean language skills and people are more than willing to be helpful. I think they find me to be a novelty and I amuse them.
I agree with Yaya, treatment depends on your own attitude towards things. When I read the article posted in the first message of this thread I searched my brain to remember if any of those things had happened to me. It has been only just over a month for me but to this point I'm having a positive experience and I hope to improve on my language skills.
I work at a hagwon where I don't feel that I'm treated any differently from the caucasian teachers. Although there are some issues with another gyopo there.
Yes, some Korean people do expect you to know their customs automatically but I think a lot also understand the fact that some Korean-looking people may not have been born within the country and therefore have different standards and values. |
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jaebea
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: SYD
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Back to OT (and away from all this Korean pride business), I'm what would be classified as a gyopo, even though I can read, write and speak Korean quite comfortably, and probably won't give away this fact in day to day living. Pin me down in a Korean discussion however, and it'll be pretty clear that I'm not Korean bred quite quickly.
Australia is my home, and I'll always consider myself as Australian before I do as Korean. I guess it's odd when people ask me about something that has happened in Korea and they automatically assume me to know about it. I guess a lot of the posters to this forum get the same sort of questions, regarding NZ, the US, Canada, RSA and anywhere else I may have missed.
The disapproving attitude is still there. First hand, I've had people next to me at PC cafe's abuse me in Korean behind my back, because I was reading English sites and chatting in English. Of course, they get very embarrassed when I ask the store owner where the bathroom is. In Korean. I give them a quick glance and they seem to have kept enough shame to look sheepish. These were youths, not ajosshi's or geriatrics, so
it's not bound to any specific social group.
As an aside, I think in order to sate my desire to assimilate and to "compensate" for the colour of my skin, I've turned out a lot more "Australian" than people give me credit for. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but maybe a point to ponder. Have other gyopo's felt a similar desire to "overcompensate"? Or is this relatively unique to me?
jae. |
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