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Selfishness and Me
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Sophocles



Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Location: MetroSeoul

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject: Selfishness and Me Reply with quote

Now, I'm pretty new to this real life thing. I've been out of University 2 years and been in Korea the whole time. However, this is what I've found about living here:

I'm selfish. It's always about me and how much money I can make and save. I feel I don't benefit anyone since my hogwan sucks and I've become apathetic about the whole situation. My bosses use me and I fight them all I can on everything - selfishness breeds more selfishness, I guess.

I don't remember feeling like this in Canada. Anyone else feel this way since being here? Maybe that's just how life is...? Man, I hope not.

In any case, this life is not going to last much longer... I'm certainly going to change lines of work, REAL SOON.

I just wanna know if other people feel the same way.
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Sine qua non



Joined: 18 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Selfishness and Me Reply with quote

Sophocles wrote:
I'm selfish. It's always about me and how much money I can make and save. I feel I don't benefit anyone since my hogwan sucks and I've become apathetic about the whole situation.



OK. Now you know the problem. Now you know what to change.

Been there...and still doing that.
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PeterDragon



Joined: 15 Feb 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the money is inevitably one of the biggest appeals of coming to Korea over other countries--- even the crapwons pay better than Thailand, China's or even Taiwan's best schools, and the cost of living is lower than Japan or the States.

And I don't see anything wrong with coming here at least in part for the money.

I will also say that the selfishness you're describing is something I felt MUCH MORE in college than in the real world. I was kind of a cutthroat b@st@rd in college actually, and softened quickly once I got out, because I personally find the real world to be much more honest and fair than academia.

It sounds like you're feeling guilty, Soph. Could you describe your attitude a little more, and why it makes you feel bad about yourself? Or what seems different about the world now that you're out of college and in another country?
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Sophocles



Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Location: MetroSeoul

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeterDragon wrote:
Well, the money is inevitably one of the biggest appeals of coming to Korea over other countries--- even the crapwons pay better than Thailand, China's or even Taiwan's best schools, and the cost of living is lower than Japan or the States.

And I don't see anything wrong with coming here at least in part for the money.

I will also say that the selfishness you're describing is something I felt MUCH MORE in college than in the real world. I was kind of a cutthroat b@st@rd in college actually, and softened quickly once I got out, because I personally find the real world to be much more honest and fair than academia.

It sounds like you're feeling guilty, Soph. Could you describe your attitude a little more, and why it makes you feel bad about yourself? Or what seems different about the world now that you're out of college and in another country?


Wow... most sympathetic post ever. Thanks.

How I'm feeling... let's see. I used to feel like I was doing something that would eventually do some good to other people, even if it was just educating myself. Learning made me feel very prpductive and I guess university gave me the motivation to keep going. Other people in the same position as me and professors to keep me feeling like I accomplished something.

I get none of that here. Teaching a crappy and ineffective cirriculum to little brats whose parents I'm constantly trying to please so I don't lose my job and lose out on my year-end bonuses. My bosses who never share anything they get from the parents or amonst themselves (there are only 2 FT - it wouldn't kill them to share some of the good stuff the parents bring in, especially since the bosses don't even teach the kids). I live waiting for my next paycheck so I can say I'm one month closer to getting out and saving up the cash.

I suppose, as I said before, working for a business like this has made me want watch out for myself and only myself. I don't care about the business and I don't care about my bosses. Maybe that's what I hate the most. They're people who have been reduced to my monthly paycheck and occasionally disruptions to my daily life in the form of criticism.

I think working in this social structure - where everyone is trying to make a buck and joining in the rat race is another thing that's so different from academia. I've never been in this position before. My parents were never like that - everything they did was for their children - completely unselfish.

Jeez... sorry about the rant. Writing really does get it off one's chest!
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jdog2050



Joined: 17 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sophocles wrote:
PeterDragon wrote:
Well, the money is inevitably one of the biggest appeals of coming to Korea over other countries--- even the crapwons pay better than Thailand, China's or even Taiwan's best schools, and the cost of living is lower than Japan or the States.

And I don't see anything wrong with coming here at least in part for the money.

I will also say that the selfishness you're describing is something I felt MUCH MORE in college than in the real world. I was kind of a cutthroat b@st@rd in college actually, and softened quickly once I got out, because I personally find the real world to be much more honest and fair than academia.

It sounds like you're feeling guilty, Soph. Could you describe your attitude a little more, and why it makes you feel bad about yourself? Or what seems different about the world now that you're out of college and in another country?


Wow... most sympathetic post ever. Thanks.

How I'm feeling... let's see. I used to feel like I was doing something that would eventually do some good to other people, even if it was just educating myself. Learning made me feel very prpductive and I guess university gave me the motivation to keep going. Other people in the same position as me and professors to keep me feeling like I accomplished something.

I get none of that here. Teaching a crappy and ineffective cirriculum to little brats whose parents I'm constantly trying to please so I don't lose my job and lose out on my year-end bonuses. My bosses who never share anything they get from the parents or amonst themselves (there are only 2 FT - it wouldn't kill them to share some of the good stuff the parents bring in, especially since the bosses don't even teach the kids). I live waiting for my next paycheck so I can say I'm one month closer to getting out and saving up the cash.

I suppose, as I said before, working for a business like this has made me want watch out for myself and only myself. I don't care about the business and I don't care about my bosses. Maybe that's what I hate the most. They're people who have been reduced to my monthly paycheck and occasionally disruptions to my daily life in the form of criticism.

I think working in this social structure - where everyone is trying to make a buck and joining in the rat race is another thing that's so different from academia. I've never been in this position before. My parents were never like that - everything they did was for their children - completely unselfish.

Jeez... sorry about the rant. Writing really does get it off one's chest!


Well, I've pretty much summed Korea up like this: it'd be better if *they* wanted it to be better.

If you got stuck with an unlucky straw, don't feel bad. It's not your fault to an extent, especially if your bosses *themselves* make it hard for *you* to be a better teacher. Hell, I work in the most affluent school in the one of the most affluent parts of Seoul...and yet we still butt-heads with the administration over the simplest crap--we're not talking pay, we're talking about getting a set-in-stone calendar, liberal sick days...simple sh--.

At the end of the day, you say you've been here two years...you should know by now that you can always just bounce out of your situation. Get a new job, change *how* you work, i.e., string together a bunch of part times. You know what the problem is, fix it until it's tolerable.
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Sophocles



Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Location: MetroSeoul

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'll be out here soon enough. Nice to know there are people who sympathize. Or empathize. Or, whatever.
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venus



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: Near Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sophocles wrote:
Yeah, I'll be out here soon enough. Nice to know there are people who sympathize. Or empathize. Or, whatever.


As long as you don�t work in the financial sector (sales / marketing etc) you�ll find thre work atmosphere a lot softer and friendlier once you get home.

They say if you can survive a year in Korea, then you can work anywhere and it�s true. Anyhtin is a piece of cake after this, trust me.

I went home to the UK after a year and half in Korea and was overwhelmed at how nice and respectful people were to each other at work and how much more laid back the atmosphere was, and how much more efficiently things were done. Also how accomodating my bosses were and the HR department were to my needs. Also after teaching Korean kids in a hakwan (or public school for that matter) you wont believe how easy a normal job feels after that. I mean I didn�t become a brain surgeon or anyhting, just worked for the civil service for a while and had a job selling business to business conferences. But it was nice to feel I was treated as a valued human being again.

Still returned to Korea though. I will warn you - unless you leave to go into something you are really into - a normal 8 hr work day passes like a week in comparison to a day in a school in Korea... Also kind of hard to give up the savings and lifestyle Korea still continues to offer an esl teacher....

Always leave to start something better.
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Sophocles



Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Location: MetroSeoul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

venus wrote:
Sophocles wrote:
Yeah, I'll be out here soon enough. Nice to know there are people who sympathize. Or empathize. Or, whatever.


As long as you don�t work in the financial sector (sales / marketing etc) you�ll find thre work atmosphere a lot softer and friendlier once you get home.

They say if you can survive a year in Korea, then you can work anywhere and it�s true. Anyhtin is a piece of cake after this, trust me.

I went home to the UK after a year and half in Korea and was overwhelmed at how nice and respectful people were to each other at work and how much more laid back the atmosphere was, and how much more efficiently things were done. Also how accomodating my bosses were and the HR department were to my needs. Also after teaching Korean kids in a hakwan (or public school for that matter) you wont believe how easy a normal job feels after that. I mean I didn�t become a brain surgeon or anyhting, just worked for the civil service for a while and had a job selling business to business conferences. But it was nice to feel I was treated as a valued human being again.

Still returned to Korea though. I will warn you - unless you leave to go into something you are really into - a normal 8 hr work day passes like a week in comparison to a day in a school in Korea... Also kind of hard to give up the savings and lifestyle Korea still continues to offer an esl teacher....

Always leave to start something better.


Wow... that was really helpful. My friends and I often wonder if there is a job out there that we will like after disliking jobs here. It's nice to know there is light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak.

I'm actually going back to go back for my MA but I do intend to find part time work... I really look forward to it. I think working in a coffee shop would be better than this, somedays.
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Axl Rose



Joined: 16 Feb 2006

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Selfishness and Me Reply with quote

Sophocles wrote:
Now, I'm pretty new to this real life thing. I've been out of University 2 years and been in Korea the whole time. However, this is what I've found about living here:

I'm selfish. It's always about me and how much money I can make and save. I feel I don't benefit anyone since my hogwan sucks and I've become apathetic about the whole situation. My bosses use me and I fight them all I can on everything - selfishness breeds more selfishness, I guess.

I don't remember feeling like this in Canada. Anyone else feel this way since being here? Maybe that's just how life is...? Man, I hope not.

In any case, this life is not going to last much longer... I'm certainly going to change lines of work, REAL SOON.

I just wanna know if other people feel the same way.


I totally hear you, although I've no plans to move on as yet.
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kermo



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't blame you for feeling mercenary about the whole thing, feeling disillusioned and disconnected.

However, I want to encourage you to make the most of the time you have, because despite the idiocy of your cynical bosses and the hideousness of the pushy parents, there are a bunch of unwitting participants in the boat with you: your students. Even if you're being sabotaged by the textbooks, school policies, etc., etc., do what you can to make a difference for your students. They may just as frustrated as you are (it probaby isn't their idea to be there), hence their bratty behaviour. However, your paycheque only comes once a month, and is soon gone. The satisfaction of helping a kid understand, encouraging them or just enjoying them is something you'll always be proud of.
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unknown9398



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Location: Yeongcheon, S. Korea

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: Selfishness and Me Reply with quote

Sophocles wrote:
Maybe that's just how life is...? Man, I hope not.


I hate to break it to you kid, but you hit the nail on the head. Welcome to the rat race.
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Satori



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing wrong with being here for money, but you will enjoy your time here more if you put forward your best effort to do good teaching, even if that is DESPITE poor management from your boss. Teaching a good class just feels like the time goes so much quicker than teaching a dull unprepared class, so you can think of it as part of the selfishness thing anyway!
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jay-shi



Joined: 09 May 2004
Location: On tour

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kermo wrote:
I don't blame you for feeling mercenary about the whole thing, feeling disillusioned and disconnected.

However, I want to encourage you to make the most of the time you have, because despite the idiocy of your cynical bosses and the hideousness of the pushy parents, there are a bunch of unwitting participants in the boat with you: your students. Even if you're being sabotaged by the textbooks, school policies, etc., etc., do what you can to make a difference for your students. They may just as frustrated as you are (it probaby isn't their idea to be there), hence their bratty behaviour. However, your paycheque only comes once a month, and is soon gone. The satisfaction of helping a kid understand, encouraging them or just enjoying them is something you'll always be proud of.


Post of the month!
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luvnpeas



Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere i have never travelled

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are you blaming your negative feeling on Korea, rather than on a lousy job? If you had a lousy job in Canada, would you feel much better?

I like my teaching gig. The other teachers are friendly. I like what I learn when learn from teaching.

Maybe you just need a better workplace.

I don't like the isolation--I've gone this whole weekend saying nothing but "'nyang 'aseo" to store clerks.
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4 months left



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you ever stop to think that maybe you feel that way because of the hagwon culture in Korea? I think many people believe they can come here and make a difference in their student's lives and we do make a difference to some students. Other students, whether they be adults or children, don't really care about learning English and only do it because they are forced by their bosses or parents.

The vast majority of hagwons are there to make money. They are greedy and generally don't care about their students (yes some do.) I wouldn't be too concerned about, if you have at least tried to teach well then you have done your job.

Coming out of University, you are just starting to experience the "real world." It was an experience, take the good and learn what you can do to change the bad. It's a cliche but it is very true - it's not the mistakes or bad experiences in life you have, it's how you correct or learn from them.

Good luck, I guarantee you'll look back on this experienc and see you are a better person for going through it. Not many people in the world had the opportunity to experience what you did.
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