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Guri Guy

Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Location: Bamboo Island
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:37 am Post subject: |
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One thing that especially bothers me is the seeming absence of any concept of "health food." It seems Koreans know next to nothing about nutrition, vitamins, types of fats, and that rancid animal fat is unhealthy. They almost seem to think it is a delicacy. Heck, Spam is served as an appetizer. While there is a lot that is good and healthy about the Korean diet, they can't seem to conceive that there might be fundamental problems with it. Eating raw cabbage every day, sometimes three times a day, is a very, very bad idea. Instead of vitamins, they are sold on little bottles of miracle elixirs, with a bit of aloe, ginseng, magic yogurt, or whatever. in it -- along with lots of sugar. |
Spot on. I have changed my diet, gained more muscle and am now down to 10% body fat. My coworkers seem oblivious when I talk about nutrition and how to eat healthier. They don't believe me when I say the average Korean diet is way too high in sodium.
Even the people at my gym seem to have no idea how to eat healthy. That plus the hordes of people taking smoke breaks while exercising.  |
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maximreality
Joined: 24 Jan 2007
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Alyallen wrote: |
maximreality wrote: |
Alyallen wrote: |
Ultimately, someone's weight is their own business. Koreans rip on each other to keep everyone in line. That's "acceptable" because the culture is group oriented....that doesn't explain the same behavior in America, though... |
It's not only your business as it's been shown that obesity leads to different kinds of diseases and therefore stresses a health-care system. It's same as with smoking - why should everyone pay for your "own business"? |
This is a strange reaction but So?
This argument bugs me. Why assume that you are paying for their problems anyway? The U.S. doesn't have universal healthcare, so how is it coming out of your pocket? Think about it, if there was money to be made off all these sick people, why aren't there more doctors cashing in? Insurance companies hold the purse strings and let people get sicker and sicker instead of making sure they get proper care before more serious (and costlier) complications set in. My opinion though... |
Actually, I'm from Finland and we do have universal health-care. Also, even health-care is provided through insurance, obese related diseases DO raise insurance premiums, so people are paying for that in a way or another. Maybe the rates should be different according to body/weight ratio?  |
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Alyallen

Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: |
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Guri Guy wrote: |
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I mean that it's a lot easier to die from a lack of food than from too much.
A person who is obese can live for some time and then develop diseases such as diabetes, heart disease and whatever else obesity is a contributor for. |
Pretty piss poor argument I must say. How many people starve themselves to death from anorexia every year?
I'd say obesity kills far more than anorexia obviously. However the promotion of a healthy lifestyle for overweight and underweight people is the way to go. It's not that hard really. Exercise regularly building a little muscle combined with a sensible, healthy diet and you will be fine.
Here's a good take on it:
So not only are we fat but we�re getting fatter, and at an alarming rate. The majority of the people in North America are killing ourselves with the overconsumption of food and yet we worry about the roughly 1% of the population that is so thin that seeing superskinny models on TV will make them engage in dangerous behaviours?
How many people die of starvation or malnutrition in North America? One? Two? I think its possible that fewer people die from starvation each year in Canada and the USA than you have fat fingers on your two hands.
But how many people die of heart disease? How many people die of strokes? How many people die of obesity-caused cancers? Millions.
It�s ironic that the move to ban too-thin models in Spain occurred just weeks after this alarming study: �More people overweight than underweight�.
�[O]verweight people [are] outnumbering the malnourished for the first time [in the history of mankind].
�New figures reveal an alarming shift from a starving world to one of dietary excess with 1.3 billion people overweight or obese compared with about 800 million who are underweight.�
http://arisdistillery.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_archive.html
Death rate extrapolations for USA for Obesity: 300,000 per year, 25,000 per month, 5,769 per week, 821 per day, 34 per hour,
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/o/obesity/deaths.htm
Death Rate Among Anorexia Nervosa Patients Exaggerated
By Brian Carnell
Sunday, June 8, 2003
A Mayo Clinic study that looked at mortality rates among patients with anorexia nervosa over a period of 60 years concluded that people diagnosed with the disorder die at the same rate as people who do not have the disorder. This contradicts both previous clinical studies as well as many commonly cited claims that the death rate for people with the disorder is extremely high.
The commonly repeated claim is that individuals with anorexia nervosa have a mortality rate that is an astounding 12 times higher than the general population. But, as an epidemiologist with the Mayo Clinic points out, that is because previous studies were generally conducted in hospital settings where individuals with the most advanced cases of the disorder would be overrepresented.
Searching medical records, the Mayo Clinic identified 208 patients who met the criteria for an anorexia nervosa diagnosis between 1935 and 1989. The researchers found that those patients had the same death rate as the general population.
Mayo Clinic epidemiologist Joseph Melton said that,
Although our data suggest that overall mortality is not increased among community patients with anorexia nervosa in general, these findings should not lead to complacency in clinical practice because deaths do occur.
Patrick Sullivan, a professor of psychiatry and genetics at the University of Carolina at Chapel Hill, wrote in an editorial accompanying the study that what it showed was that anorexia nervosa symptoms occurred along a spectrum. Those with the most severe cases -- such as those requiring hospitalization -- may indeed have a higher mortality rate, but it is important to make distinctions between the degree of severity of the disease rather than lumping all cases in with the most severe and claiming that anyone with the disorder has a 12 times higher mortality rate.
Source:
Death rate for eating disorder not unusual. Brad Evenson, National Post (Canada), March 12, 2003.
http://www.skepticism.net/articles/2003/000017.html
In the end, I'd worry a lot less about a few underweight people than obese people that are dying in huge numbers. It certainly isn't healthy to be underweight but it is often deadly to be obese. |
What you quoted was in response to clarify something I had stated earlier. The point being that it takes a longer time for obese people to develop health problems in comparison to someone who has bulimia or anorexia.
But this is neither here nor there. Most Korean women are probably not full on bulimics or anorexics. My comments are geared more towards who skip meals and go on never ending diets every time they gain an ounce. That is not healthy...no matter how you look at it... |
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Guri Guy

Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Location: Bamboo Island
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:01 am Post subject: |
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However, the Mayo clinic said the death rates are no higher for Anorexic people than the average population. It seems to me that means that means that they are living as long as the average person. You can't say the same thing about obese people.
It seems that obesity causes health problems among the very young. The younger pre-pubescent children part is what really scares me. 10 year olds with Diabetes because they are obese is a big problem.
CHICAGO - An eight-member expert panel of the American Diabetes Association (ADA) reports that between 8 and 45 percent of newly diagnosed cases of childhood diabetes are type 2, non-insulin dependent, associated with obesity. The panel included members of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP). The report was published in the March issues of Diabetes Care, a journal of the ADA, and Pediatrics.
Diabetes is a disease in which the body does not produce or properly use insulin, a hormone that is needed to convert sugar, starches and other food into energy needed for daily life. Type 1, previously known as insulin dependent diabetes, occurs when the body does not produce any insulin because of a destructive process in the cells of the pancreas that produce insulin. Type 2 diabetes is usually associated with obesity and is caused by resistance to insulin as well as the inability of the pancreas to keep up with the increased demand for insulin.
Recent research shows a surge in children diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Whereas fewer than 4 percent of childhood diabetes cases in 1990 were type 2, that number has risen to approximately 20 percent, varying from 8 percent to 45 percent, depending on the age of the group studied (type 2 is most frequent in the 10 to 19 year age group in pediatric practice) and the racial/ethnic mix of the group studied. Of the children diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, 85 percent are obese.
Most children are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes during middle-to-late puberty. Physicians fear that as the childhood population becomes increasingly overweight and less active, more type 2 diabetes may occur in younger pre-pubescent children.
http://www.aap.org/advocacy/archives/mardia.htm
Fair enough though. I agree that a lot of Korean women don't know how to eat healthily. Whether they are overweight or underweight. |
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nateium

Joined: 21 Aug 2006 Location: Seoul
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gyopogirlfromtexas

Joined: 21 Apr 2007 Location: Austin,Texas
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: Re: body image |
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gatorchick82 wrote: |
I've heard that eating disorders are rampant here. I work at a women's university, and my students constantly exchange diet tips. Their "diets" seem pretty extreme - one girl suggested only drinking tomato juice for a week. I also get a lot of essays detailing their weight-loss success stories (the topic was "what did you do last summer?").
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My cousin got this diet from a bodybuilder. He was the cover guy for Men's Health and Muscle magazines. It's something I couldn't do. I love to eat too much to follow his diet. Only eat egg whites, rice cakes, salmon, tuna, lots of water,papaya, green apples +veggies, no dairy or bread, and protein shakes. That's all you're allowed to eat. Supposedly it's called the model's diet.
Everytime I say I want to loose a few pounds, and my cousin shows me that diet, I'm like, "uhm no. I can't live like that." I just love to cook so much to stick to that nasty stuff.
But who can live on that? I can do it for maybe one day, but I'd go insane if I had to keep it up. But wow, that guy's body. I am kinda scared by it because he has so much muscle, that he has no neck, walks like a gorilla, and you can literally see huge veins looking like they are ready to burst out of his skin. He looks like the Hulk. More muscular than the governator in Conan. |
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djsmnc

Joined: 20 Jan 2003 Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: |
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A number of people here are blaming rice as a culprit for obesity, but that's not necessarily the case.
I remember when my girlfriend came by my hoose the first time and was surprised to see me stocked with the little instant microwave rice containers found everywhere from your local mom and pop shop to Lotte Mart.
We took a trip to the grocery store later and she bought a bunch of additional grains, beans and legumes and said that that was the way most Koreans eat rice at home. I said "...but I've seen them eat white rice at home" but she said that when she was growing up (in Seoul, mind you), that her family and friends' families also made it like that.
I think with the mixture of brown rice and other assorted goodies, it's a lot healthier, but I can't assume that most Koreans eat rice like that at home based on her claims.
I could see white rice being a sort of "fast food" comparison as it would be cheaper to serve in greater quantities at restaurants. She has always said not to eat so much restaurant food, even at Korean restaurants because it's lacking in nutritional value.
Until recently, most Koreans haven't eaten a lot of processed foods compared to people in other countries either. I don't think they buy a lot of frozen vegetables. |
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Smee

Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Location: Jeollanam-do
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, I'll grant that Koreans are obsessed with appearance. Any idiot can see this from the sun visors, the whitening creams, the plastic surgery, the towns (like mine) with more hair salons and cosmetic shops than convenience stores and restaurants . . . and of course it's terribly small-minded to think this is a Korean problem.
But, and maybe this belongs in the "Say un-PC things" thread, but is Korea's attitude toward body image any worse than the west's? WHat I mean is, people seem to complain a lot about the frankness of Koreans who comment "you're fat" or "you're thin" or "you look tired" or "you have a big nose" or whatever. How is that any worse than what happens back home or among foreigners. Numerous times I've listened to quite overweight western women in Korea complainabout not being able to shop here, or about getting hassled for their size, or whatever. I mean, it's like when a 225 pound westerner walks in we're expected not to notice or say anything. That person becomes the elephant in the corner (pun pretty much intended). |
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Jeweltone
Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Location: Seoul, S. Korea
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Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Shopping is brutal in Korea for anyone over a size six, but I know what you mean. I am actually a US size 12-14 (short, so technically slightly overweight) and I have a difficult time shopping here. I susually end up at the "plus" stores, then have everything tailored DOWN to my size. I see some of the women in those stores though, and I bet they have a tough time...
A factor which no one has brought up is bone structure and build. Many Westerners are simply built differently than the typical Korean. Some of my coworkers have been accused of being "fat" but actually were average size (one of them was a former model). We are just built differently.
A Korean friend of mine has also been called fat, but actually, the only thing unusual about her size is that she has a bit more "S-line" than usual (she is also an athlete, so she is in good shape). She blows it off most of the time, but I can see it gets to her sometimes.
I like the Victorian ideal of beauty more. A heavily corseted woman squeezes the excess fat up to the bust and down to the hips, thus creating the much-desired hourglass figure, so they did have a bit more body fat. Women are supposed to have curves and some cushioning... "More cushion for the pushin..."
I think men with a little cushion are sexier also, so maybe it is just personal taste...? |
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Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Why Are Koreans So Obsessed With Bodyweight and Looks? |
better question is:
Why Are men So Obsessed With women's Bodyweight and Looks? |
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nateium

Joined: 21 Aug 2006 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:04 am Post subject: |
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Julius wrote: |
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Why Are Koreans So Obsessed With Bodyweight and Looks? |
better question is:
Why Are men So Obsessed With women's Bodyweight and Looks? |
Because bodyweight is an indication of health (didn't we cover that already?), and from an evolutionary perspective "looks" are too. Most of the features men in all culture are "obsessed" with are also indicators of health. A healthy mate means fertility and healthy children and the perpetuation of the mans DNA. From a biological perspective, it's to a mans advantage to selects the most "attractive" mates, and impregnate as many of them as possible. Women have a different strategy to perpetuate their own genes.
Rationally, personality should be the most important consideration for modern men interested in marriage eventually. Unfortunately, eons of socio-biological programing usually trumps that concern.
Last edited by nateium on Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps it's all down to tapeworms. |
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beachbumNC

Joined: 30 May 2007 Location: Gumi
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:22 am Post subject: |
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a korean girl said i was "a little bit fat" the other day. i thought it was funny since my grandma is always worried that i don't eat enough. i'm a 5 ft. 10 in. male in good health and weigh 160 pounds. hilarious!
the same girl saw a korean dude in the bar we were in who must have been about six feet even and built like a rugby player. all muscle. she acted like he was grossly, morbidly, disgustingly fat.
oddly enough, she has a little tummy poking out and big boobs and butt for an asian girl.
how strange! |
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beachbumNC

Joined: 30 May 2007 Location: Gumi
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Alyallen wrote: |
nateium wrote: |
Alyallen wrote: |
nateium wrote: |
Why not look at it from the other side? Why are we more likely to accept and be sensitive with overweight/obese people in western countries? It's not healthy, attractive, or even natural. It a disgusting and expensive major health problem much more serious as a percentage of the population than bulimia and anorexia. |
Attractive - Subjective
Healthy - Depends on the person. Being thin doesn't mean you are healthy and being fat, though a indicator for a number of diseases, doesn't mean you are not healthy. Being in shape is more important than having the appearance of health...
Natural - It can happen in nature and it has happened all whole lot, so what's so unnatural about it?
In any event, it's easier to point out the fatties than the "thin" people who are rotting their bodies from the inside out.... |
Sure attraction is subjective and "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." But simply, most people all over the world would agree that it is not attractive to be fat, and that skinny people are more attractive than fat people.
Sure, thin people can be unhealthy, and some overweight types who exercise alot are in general good health, but these are exceptions and not the rule. Obesity is linked to so many health problems that there is really no excuse for it. Thin people are generally much more healthy than overweight people.
Obesity is not natural. In most preindustrial societies there were a very small number of overweight/obese people relative to the population. Most of the extra pounds come from a sedentary lifestyle, and a modern diet. In the tribe or village of the past, most member of the community were well fit, and you'd be hard pressed to find a buddah belly. The majority of people rotting from the inside are overweight. Again you were talking about the exception and not the rule. |
If I came home weighing 125 lbs, my family would think there was something wrong with me. I'm not overweight but I'm not a twig either. There is a range in between that is quite pleasant to the eye and trying to convince me that some rail thin woman with no muscle tone is more attractive than a woman with a few curves is like trying to convince me that rain is dry...IMPOSSIBLE. I have not taken a survey of every person on earth and I'm not pretending that my views are par the course but if being overweight was soooo unacceptable there would be a lot of single obese men and women and that is not the case.
I'm not a guy but I'd rather see a woman like this...
As oppose to this...
or this
Obesity may not be natural but obviously it is possible for it to occur in staggering numbers. Hmmmm....I don't think I'd be so quick to say that its unnatural. A reflection of a shift in human activity yes...unnatural...not so much.
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The majority of people rotting from the inside are overweight. |
And I suppose the thin ones who are killing themselves get a free pass because they are thin? Or is it that it's a lot harder to point to figure at them than a fat person walking down the street? |
Alyallen rox my sox! |
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ca12bon

Joined: 29 May 2007 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: . |
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Maybe because that's the only thing they have control over?
Think about it, there's no freedom to truely express yourself in Korea,
and the economy has been in a semi-slump for decades, so what are
you going to do? Change the only thing in life that you actuallly have control over, your looks.
Westerners, however, have the privilege of being able to freely express themselves, which means that sometimes they will express themselves not through their outward appearances, but what is inside. I think Koreans have a lot less, because of the culture/society.
In any case, things like this happen all over the world, especially in the
more developed areas, where you'll find young girls spewing up their dinner every night just to lose weight. |
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