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HighTreason
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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 Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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I find "the N-Word" to be rather funny. We talk around things so much that people don't even feel comfortable saying a word when they are talking about the word. If you are talking about the word "n*igger", you are talking about a word, people. You are not talking about another person, you are not using the word as a racial slur, you are not being offensive if you say "n*gger" to talk about the word "n*gger"!! Society is just so incredibly silly in this regard. We have these things called "bad words"... words can't be bad, using them could be a bad thing to do, but nothing about how the word sounds or looks on paper is bad!
It gets so ridiculous that I have actually had people argue that saying "black person" is bad. We have to say ridiculously long-winded things like "person of African descent" or something so that no overly sensitive politically correct idiots get offended... Pretty soon, it'll probably take us a damn paragraph just to say what could easily be said in one word!
Of course, I guess the headline would have looked pretty strange if it had read:
NAACP HOLDS A FUNERAL AND BURIES N1GGER |
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bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| HighTreason wrote: |
I find "the N-Word" to be rather funny. We talk around things so much that people don't even feel comfortable saying a word when they are talking about the word. If you are talking about the word "n*igger", you are talking about a word, people. You are not talking about another person, you are not using the word as a racial slur, you are not being offensive if you say "n*gger" to talk about the word "n*gger"!! Society is just so incredibly silly in this regard. We have these things called "bad words"... words can't be bad, using them could be a bad thing to do, but nothing about how the word sounds or looks on paper is bad!
It gets so ridiculous that I have actually had people argue that saying "black person" is bad. We have to say ridiculously long-winded things like "person of African descent" or something so that no overly sensitive politically correct idiots get offended... Pretty soon, it'll probably take us a damn paragraph just to say what could easily be said in one word!
Of course, I guess the headline would have looked pretty strange if it had read:
NAACP HOLDS A FUNERAL AND BURIES N1GGER |
First of all, you sound like a white person talking ie: A person who hasn't ever been called n***** thus your opinion on the subject about how offensive the word n***** is will not carry as much gravitas as say mine. How can your opinion on the subject have any bearing on how offensive it is to the people the slur is aimed at, when it aint you?
I could say, as a non gay person 'faggot', 'homo' etc are not offensive. However won't the views of a gay person if the word is offensive or not hold more water than my thoughts? I think thats the case don't you think?
The origins of the word was a racist slur used during the times of slavery to degenerate a race of people. What annoys me more than white people like you whinging about not being able to use the 'N' word as a infringment of your civil liberties and 'free speech' are black people who want to reclaim this foul word. Why the hell do they think the 'N' word
is worth saving or reclaiming? It is lanaguage of the gutter and I would like to think that all of us have gone forward far enough in the evolutionary process to rid ourselves of the need to racially slur other people because they don't look like us.
If you feel though High Treason, that the 'N' word still has a place in your paticular vocabulary and discourse. Instead of whinging on here about political correctness why don't you go out tonight and find some big, black, brick shithouse size of an american GI and tell him all that you have told us tonight?
Come back tomorrow and tell us about how painful your broken jaw is. 
Last edited by bejarano-korea on Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| dogshed wrote: |
Oh great. Now you got me thinking about the n-word. Now I'm going to be thinking about it all the time. Then I'll start wondering about my own inner racist. I'll wonder if thinking about the N-word too much will make me a bad person. I'll start repeating it in my head over and over and over. I'll wonder if people can tell that in my mind I'm repeating the N-word over and over. I'll start to fear that I might say it out loud. Eventually, I'll hear it so often in my head that I will start saying it out loud.
"Hi, how are you? Nice to meet you."
N-word. N-word. N-word.
I'll of course loose my job and end up sleeping in the subway repeating the N-word like a mantra. |
If you have an inner racist dogshed then you are a bit of a prat. What makes me laugh though is that people like you think you are important enough to get the likes of us to change your mind about using racist language.
When I was a young lad. I wanted the world to be non racist and was kept up at night wondering how we could all live in a peaceful, multi racial
utopia.
But you know what dogshed. I don't give a toss what you think. you are not worth saving because you are a small minded cretin unable of any kind of lateral thought . You think you a smartarse with your silly little post
but I give you the BK taste test. Go out and find a big, black GI to call a
n*****. It is not like there are a shortage of them in the army base towns in Korea are there? Excercise your rights of free speech! Please! |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Some of those black GI girls have an ass on them that just won't stop either. Check some of that out after you get done slagging off a Black GI in the name of social equality. |
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HighTreason
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| why don't you go out tonight and find some big, black, brick *beep* size of an american GI |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
Go out and find a big, black GI to call a
n*****. |
hmmm, you certainly seem to be a bit preoccupied with big black GI's...
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| as a non gay person |
Are you sure?? |
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bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| Dan The Chainsawman wrote: |
| Some of those black GI girls have an ass on them that just won't stop either. Check some of that out after you get done slagging off a Black GI in the name of social equality. |
Dan, where am I slagging off black GIs?
Thanks for your small, but worthless contribution though!  |
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bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| HighTreason wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| why don't you go out tonight and find some big, black, brick *beep* size of an american GI |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
Go out and find a big, black GI to call a
n*****. |
hmmm, you certainly seem to be a bit preoccupied with big black GI's...
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| as a non gay person |
Are you sure?? |
When faced with a real intellectual argument, you turn into the one celled amoeba that you really are!
Thicker than a rhino's foreskin son! Leave the big talk to the grown ups the next time, eh! |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| Dan The Chainsawman wrote: |
| Some of those black GI girls have an ass on them that just won't stop either. Check some of that out after you get done slagging off a Black GI in the name of social equality. |
Dan, where am I slagging off black GIs?
Thanks for your small, but worthless contribution though! |
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HighTreason
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| bejarano-korea wrote: |
When faced with a real intellectual argument, you turn into the one celled amoeba that you really are!
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You're right, that was a cheap shot, and I'm sorry. You are right that I am white and have rarely been called a n*gger. However, I have certainly been insulted and judged unfairly by people who have not even bothered to get to know me many times. I have never called for the banishment of any of the words they used to do so. I can insult a black person without calling him a n*gger, and I think what the reclaimation movement is trying to say is that they can call a black person a n*gger without insulting them. Once those two things are established, "n*gger" loses its power as an insult and only then can it truly be buried.
As long we keep saying things like "the n-word" thereby refusing to even speak it aloud and, by so doing, we are giving it more power!
For example... I just saw the new Harry Potter last night, and for those who are unfamiliar with it, the bad guy's name ("Voldemort") is never spoken aloud. Instead, they say things like "He who cannot be named." This "rule" is not dictated by Voldemort himself (no one would obey him if it was, of course) but by the other people who so fear him that they won't even say his name. When Harry at one point refers to Voldemort by his name in front of one of his minions, the minion takes offense saying something like "You dare to speak his name?!" or something like that. He knows that by speaking the name, Harry shows that he doesn't live in fear of Voldemort, and fear is power.
The name "Voldemort" is like the word "n*igger" in this scenerio, and "He who cannot be named" is like "the n-word." In both cases, a society so fears something that they won't even speak its name, and by so doing, they imbue it with more power.
I hear you say enough with the Harry Potter crap, how about a real world example. Well here's one! How about the word YHWH (or Yahweh depending on how you want to transliterate it). As you probably know, this is the name of the god in the old testament. It is forbidden to be spoken aloud. Instead, when being read aloud, the name YHWH was read as "the Lord" or "God" or some such thing. Humans were not deserving of the right to speak the name of YHWH and as such it was a horrible sin to do so! This was such an important rule that it's one of the ten commandments! Since few Christian sects believe this anymore (although I think Jews might still hold to it, I don't know), most have made up various new meanings for the 3rd commandment but, in its earliest incarnations, this was a warning never to speak the name YHWH aloud! It all comes down to the fact that it is very well known that to speak something aloud is to take it from the realm of the sacred to the profane. To take away it's power... To refuse to speak something aloud is to give it power or acknowledge its power.
If we just suddenly, as a society, declared that word "n*gger" now means "friend," it would lose every bit of power it has. Everyone would go around proudly calling each other n*ggers, and the people who wanted to use it as profanity would be sh*t out of luck. However, I anticipate that there would be much resistance to this course of action because people so fear this word that they are afraid even to speak it aloud! |
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bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| HighTreason wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
When faced with a real intellectual argument, you turn into the one celled amoeba that you really are!
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You're right, that was a cheap shot, and I'm sorry. You are right that I am white and have rarely been called a n*gger. However, I have certainly been insulted and judged unfairly by people who have not even bothered to get to know me many times. I have never called for the banishment of any of the words they used to do so. I can insult a black person without calling him a n*gger, and I think what the reclaimation movement is trying to say is that they can call a black person a n*gger without insulting them. Once those two things are established, "n*gger" loses its power as an insult and only then can it truly be buried.
As long we keep saying things like "the n-word" thereby refusing to even speak it aloud and, by so doing, we are giving it more power!
For example... I just saw the new Harry Potter last night, and for those who are unfamiliar with it, the bad guy's name ("Voldemort") is never spoken aloud. Instead, they say things like "He who cannot be named." This "rule" is not dictated by Voldemort himself (no one would obey him if it was, of course) but by the other people who so fear him that they won't even say his name. When Harry at one point refers to Voldemort by his name in front of one of his minions, the minion takes offense saying something like "You dare to speak his name?!" or something like that. He knows that by speaking the name, Harry shows that he doesn't live in fear of Voldemort, and fear is power.
The name "Voldemort" is like the word "n*igger" in this scenerio, and "He who cannot be named" is like "the n-word." In both cases, a society so fears something that they won't even speak its name, and by so doing, they imbue it with more power.
I hear you say enough with the Harry Potter crap, how about a real world example. Well here's one! How about the word YHWH (or Yahweh depending on how you want to transliterate it). As you probably know, this is the name of the god in the old testament. It is forbidden to be spoken aloud. Instead, when being read aloud, the name YHWH was read as "the Lord" or "God" or some such thing. Humans were not deserving of the right to speak the name of YHWH and as such it was a horrible sin to do so! This was such an important rule that it's one of the ten commandments! Since few Christian sects believe this anymore (although I think Jews might still hold to it, I don't know), most have made up various new meanings for the 3rd commandment but, in its earliest incarnations, this was a warning never to speak the name YHWH aloud! It all comes down to the fact that it is very well known that to speak something aloud is to take it from the realm of the sacred to the profane. To take away it's power... To refuse to speak something aloud is to give it power or acknowledge its power.
If we just suddenly, as a society, declared that word "n*gger" now means "friend," it would lose every bit of power it has. Everyone would go around proudly calling each other n*ggers, and the people who wanted to use it as profanity would be sh*t out of luck. However, I anticipate that there would be much resistance to this course of action because people so fear this word that they are afraid even to speak it aloud! |
As a white person, the 'N' word to you will always remain 'just a word' and I understand where you are coming from. Why should you feel offence for a word that has never been used against you in an insultng manner.
However, in my opinion. The word has no use in the English language, the word will never be erased and the fact the word hs been around 400 years and it has been used for 380 of those years as a offensive, racist
slur. I doubt that after all this time and with all the emotional and historical baggage the word contains. I doubt the 'N' word can be turned round to mean friend. This is my problem with black people who use it amongst themselves, why on earth would they want to pick the lousiest word from the white mans vocaburial toilet to descrivbe themselves? Beats me!
Why does a guy like you who is intelligent and has a decent vocabulary
need the 'N' word? What would you use the 'N' word for?
The power is within the word and it is derogotary, an it has evolved over 400 years. now I understood why it is non offensive to you. Why can't you understand why the 'N' word is more than a word and in fact offensive to me? It is because you are white and you will never ever experience the
feeling of anger, sadness and hate the 'N' word causes and for that my friend I envy you. |
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Fresh Prince
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: The glorious nation of Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:28 am Post subject: |
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| bejarano-korea wrote: |
It is because you are white and you will never ever experience the
feeling of anger, sadness and hate the 'N' word causes and for that my friend I envy you. |
I think everyone has the right to discuss political changes and current events without being talked down to because of the color of their skin.
It's funny how hyper sensitive everyone is to race in the West right now. |
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bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Fresh Prince wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
It is because you are white and you will never ever experience the
feeling of anger, sadness and hate the 'N' word causes and for that my friend I envy you. |
I think everyone has the right to discuss political changes and current events without being talked down to because of the color of their skin.
It's funny how hyper sensitive everyone is to race in the West right now. |
And what you have to realize is that your opinion on the 'N' word doesn't not carry as much weight as the opinion of a black person.
I'm sorry if you feel that way, but it's fact. Life is not fair and though you have the right to express your opinion on any subject, your opinion isn't worth a lot on this paticular subject. Especially when your opening statment on the subject was
It is like me as a non gay man, telling gay people that the word 'q****'
is 'just a word' how do hell do I know what feelings are arisen when some
bigoted loudmouth uses homphobic language to insult you?
If you as a white person cannot let go of the word 'N*****' when you already have an extensive vocabulary and a good education then there is something wrong with you.
Last edited by bejarano-korea on Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:14 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Fresh Prince
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: The glorious nation of Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| Fresh Prince wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
It is because you are white and you will never ever experience the
feeling of anger, sadness and hate the 'N' word causes and for that my friend I envy you. |
I think everyone has the right to discuss political changes and current events without being talked down to because of the color of their skin.
It's funny how hyper sensitive everyone is to race in the West right now. |
And what you have to realize is that your opinion on the 'N' word doesn't not carry as much weight as the opinion of a black person.
I'm sorry if you feel that way, but it's fact. Life is not fair and though you have the right to express your opinion on any subject, your opinion isn't worth a lot on this paticular subject.
It is like me as a non gay man, telling gay people that the word 'q****'
is 'just a word' how do hell do I know what feelings are arisen when some
bigoted loudmouth uses homphobic language to insult you?
If you as a white person cannot let go of the word 'N*****' when you already have an extensive vocabulary and a good education then there is something wrong with you. |
It's interesting that you assume that I disagree with your opinion even though I have not stated an opinion.
Everyone is aware of the sensitive nature of the topic of race and is especially aware of the historical use of the N word, the civil rights movement in the U.S., and the genocidal nature of the British, French, Dutch, and Spanish colonists. I can assure you that in North America and Australia it is drilled into everyone's head as much as it is drilled into everyone's head in the UK.
That doesn't mean that people can't discuss the issue and it's impact on their own life and their presence in society. If a "white" poster from the U.S. wants to talk about his/her viewpoints about the subject it is just as valid as someone from the UK. |
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bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Fresh Prince wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| Fresh Prince wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
It is because you are white and you will never ever experience the
feeling of anger, sadness and hate the 'N' word causes and for that my friend I envy you. |
I think everyone has the right to discuss political changes and current events without being talked down to because of the color of their skin.
It's funny how hyper sensitive everyone is to race in the West right now. |
And what you have to realize is that your opinion on the 'N' word doesn't not carry as much weight as the opinion of a black person.
I'm sorry if you feel that way, but it's fact. Life is not fair and though you have the right to express your opinion on any subject, your opinion isn't worth a lot on this paticular subject.
It is like me as a non gay man, telling gay people that the word 'q****'
is 'just a word' how do hell do I know what feelings are arisen when some
bigoted loudmouth uses homphobic language to insult you?
If you as a white person cannot let go of the word 'N*****' when you already have an extensive vocabulary and a good education then there is something wrong with you. |
It's interesting that you assume that I disagree with your opinion even though I have not stated an opinion.
Everyone is aware of the sensitive nature of the topic of race and is especially aware of the historical use of the N word, the civil rights movement in the U.S., and the genocidal nature of the British, French, Dutch, and Spanish colonists. I can assure you that in North America and Australia it is drilled into everyone's head as much as it is drilled into everyone's head in the UK.
That doesn't mean that people can't discuss the issue and it's impact on their own life and their presence in society. If a "white" poster from the U.S. wants to talk about his/her viewpoints about the subject it is just as valid as someone from the UK. |
I think everyone can discuss the topic but surely you can see that a white persons opinion on the offence the word 'N*****' caues is going to be limited.
I'm not saying you haven't got a right to an opinion however your opinion abou how offensive the 'N' word is does not carry much weight.
As you have read and know the historical connotatons of the 'N' word, a lot of white people (especially in the UK) who haven't read the history behind the word have decided that the 'N' word is the same as calling someone 'ginger' or 'fatty'
Now obviously the white person comes from a different aspect than a black person over the 'N' word, white people who complain are only upset because their percieved 'free speech' is being comprmised.
What other reason is there?
You can talk about your free speech being marginalized and thats your right and your arguments may have gravitas, but can white people tell black people how (in) offensive the 'N' word is? I don't think so. |
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Fresh Prince
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: The glorious nation of Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| Fresh Prince wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| Fresh Prince wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
It is because you are white and you will never ever experience the
feeling of anger, sadness and hate the 'N' word causes and for that my friend I envy you. |
I think everyone has the right to discuss political changes and current events without being talked down to because of the color of their skin.
It's funny how hyper sensitive everyone is to race in the West right now. |
And what you have to realize is that your opinion on the 'N' word doesn't not carry as much weight as the opinion of a black person.
I'm sorry if you feel that way, but it's fact. Life is not fair and though you have the right to express your opinion on any subject, your opinion isn't worth a lot on this paticular subject.
It is like me as a non gay man, telling gay people that the word 'q****'
is 'just a word' how do hell do I know what feelings are arisen when some
bigoted loudmouth uses homphobic language to insult you?
If you as a white person cannot let go of the word 'N*****' when you already have an extensive vocabulary and a good education then there is something wrong with you. |
It's interesting that you assume that I disagree with your opinion even though I have not stated an opinion.
Everyone is aware of the sensitive nature of the topic of race and is especially aware of the historical use of the N word, the civil rights movement in the U.S., and the genocidal nature of the British, French, Dutch, and Spanish colonists. I can assure you that in North America and Australia it is drilled into everyone's head as much as it is drilled into everyone's head in the UK.
That doesn't mean that people can't discuss the issue and it's impact on their own life and their presence in society. If a "white" poster from the U.S. wants to talk about his/her viewpoints about the subject it is just as valid as someone from the UK. |
I think everyone can discuss the topic but surely you can see that a white persons opinion on the offence the word 'N*****' caues is going to be limited.
I'm not saying you haven't got a right to an opinion however your opinion abou how offensive the 'N' word is does not carry much weight.
As you have read and know the historical connotatons of the 'N' word, a lot of white people (especially in the UK) who haven't read the history behind the word have decided that the 'N' word is the same as calling someone 'ginger' or 'fatty'
Now obviously the white person comes from a different aspect than a black person over the 'N' word, white people who complain are only upset because their percieved 'free speech' is being comprmised.
What other reason is there?
You can talk about your free speech being marginalized and thats your right and your arguments may have gravitas, but can white people tell black people how (in) offensive the 'N' word is? I don't think so. |
I'm assuming that you are using the term, "you" in the general sense and are not projecting your ideas of how you think white people see life, onto me.
I have no idea what a "ginger" is and really don't want to know. It's obviously some sort of racial profanity from your country. First, I have never said anything the things that you are attributing to me so I'm going to assume that you are using the term, "you" in a general sense and not in the literal sense.
This issue really is too sensitive to discuss at this point in time and I don't think that an ESL forum is a proper venue. The racial issues in the U.S. are not comparable to the racial issues of the U.K. and there are a lot of factors that really can't fully be understood without having spent some significant time living there. There are significant social problems that exist in the U.S. which is the location of the events discussed in this thread. Those problems do not exist in the same manner, in the UK. Therefore there are opinions which someone looking at the situation from abroad can't fully understand.
Here is my original post again: "I think everyone has the right to discuss political changes and current events without being talked down to because of the color of their skin." |
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