|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ChimpumCallao
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom
|
 Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: |
 |
|
Bejarano are you black?
If not, especially is you are Asian (the honkiest of all races, even compared to whites) your opinion on the matter carries as much weight as the other dudes on the board. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Fresh Prince wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| Fresh Prince wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| Fresh Prince wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
It is because you are white and you will never ever experience the
feeling of anger, sadness and hate the 'N' word causes and for that my friend I envy you. |
I think everyone has the right to discuss political changes and current events without being talked down to because of the color of their skin.
It's funny how hyper sensitive everyone is to race in the West right now. |
And what you have to realize is that your opinion on the 'N' word doesn't not carry as much weight as the opinion of a black person.
I'm sorry if you feel that way, but it's fact. Life is not fair and though you have the right to express your opinion on any subject, your opinion isn't worth a lot on this paticular subject.
It is like me as a non gay man, telling gay people that the word 'q****'
is 'just a word' how do hell do I know what feelings are arisen when some
bigoted loudmouth uses homphobic language to insult you?
If you as a white person cannot let go of the word 'N*****' when you already have an extensive vocabulary and a good education then there is something wrong with you. |
It's interesting that you assume that I disagree with your opinion even though I have not stated an opinion.
Everyone is aware of the sensitive nature of the topic of race and is especially aware of the historical use of the N word, the civil rights movement in the U.S., and the genocidal nature of the British, French, Dutch, and Spanish colonists. I can assure you that in North America and Australia it is drilled into everyone's head as much as it is drilled into everyone's head in the UK.
That doesn't mean that people can't discuss the issue and it's impact on their own life and their presence in society. If a "white" poster from the U.S. wants to talk about his/her viewpoints about the subject it is just as valid as someone from the UK. |
I think everyone can discuss the topic but surely you can see that a white persons opinion on the offence the word 'N*****' caues is going to be limited.
I'm not saying you haven't got a right to an opinion however your opinion abou how offensive the 'N' word is does not carry much weight.
As you have read and know the historical connotatons of the 'N' word, a lot of white people (especially in the UK) who haven't read the history behind the word have decided that the 'N' word is the same as calling someone 'ginger' or 'fatty'
Now obviously the white person comes from a different aspect than a black person over the 'N' word, white people who complain are only upset because their percieved 'free speech' is being comprmised.
What other reason is there?
You can talk about your free speech being marginalized and thats your right and your arguments may have gravitas, but can white people tell black people how (in) offensive the 'N' word is? I don't think so. |
I'm assuming that you are using the term, "you" in the general sense and are not projecting your ideas of how you think white people see life, onto me.
I have no idea what a "ginger" is and really don't want to know. It's obviously some sort of racial profanity from your country. First, I have never said anything the things that you are attributing to me so I'm going to assume that you are using the term, "you" in a general sense and not in the literal sense.
This issue really is too sensitive to discuss at this point in time and I don't think that an ESL forum is a proper venue. The racial issues in the U.S. are not comparable to the racial issues of the U.K. and there are a lot of factors that really can't fully be understood without having spent some significant time living there. There are significant social problems that exist in the U.S. which is the location of the events discussed in this thread. Those problems do not exist in the same manner, in the UK. Therefore there are opinions which someone looking at the situation from abroad can't fully understand.
Here is my original post again: "I think everyone has the right to discuss political changes and current events without being talked down to because of the color of their skin." |
You haven't yet given us your opinions on the matter, instead you decided to jump in on a debate between me and hightreason whose first stated opinion on the matter was and I quote;
| Quote: |
| I find "the N-Word" to be rather funny |
So I find hightreasons opinion on the subject offensive. You have come on here hiding your opinions but berating me because I dare tell hightreason that his opinions on how offensive the 'N' word is has no place in reality and he has no right to tell me how to feel and react to the 'N' word and he hasn't, no white person has that right!
You are saying he has the right to discuss the use of the 'N' word and I agree, but he is limited to discussing how not being able to use the word in polite company and it being a limitation on his free speech. He is more than entitled to discuss racism and racist language with anyone he wants. But he is in no position to tell me how it feels when you are on the recieveing end of the 'N' word.
I can't make my point simpler. Do you understand what I'm saying?
I have never mentioned anything about racism in the US, we have enough of it in our own country but I'm sure on the surface racism in the US, the UK, Australia, France, Spain etc is pretty similar. The 'N' word being discussed in the OP and this thread has the same connotations as the word used in the UK. Thats all that needs to be understood for me as a black Briton to have a say on it.
If you want to dicuss how you as a white person think that not being able to use the 'N' word is an infrigment on your civil liberties and free speech
then I'm willing to debate this with you.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ChimpumCallao wrote: |
Bejarano are you black?
If not, especially is you are Asian (the honkiest of all races, even compared to whites) your opinion on the matter carries as much weight as the other dudes on the board. |
My mother is black and I'm mixed race. Is it OK for me to continue?
PS: Which one of our many Asian Communities (Sikh, Hindu, Islamic, Kurdish, Turkish Cypriot, Chinese, Iraqi, Malaysian
etc etc) act whiter than a white man? (or Honky  )
Don't tell me? All Asians look the same as well as act the same don't they?
I suppose the racism against them isn't valid because they 'aint wiv da street bro'
Which part of 'da ghetto' are you from son?
Grow up! read some books, as you are watching too many Shaft films and Ali G 
Prat! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChimpumCallao
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| ChimpumCallao wrote: |
Bejarano are you black?
If not, especially is you are Asian (the honkiest of all races, even compared to whites) your opinion on the matter carries as much weight as the other dudes on the board. |
My mother is black and I'm mixed race. Is it OK for me to continue?
|
Yes.
But this means I can only take half of what you say in to consideration.
So you're Blasian? A man who knows karate and owns a gun. Sorry man, I apologize- do not want to upset.
(I kid!!!!!)
I think you're a bit sensitive, no? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ChimpumCallao wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| ChimpumCallao wrote: |
Bejarano are you black?
If not, especially is you are Asian (the honkiest of all races, even compared to whites) your opinion on the matter carries as much weight as the other dudes on the board. |
My mother is black and I'm mixed race. Is it OK for me to continue?
|
Yes.
But this means I can only take half of what you say in to consideration.
So you're Blasian? A man who knows karate and owns a gun. Sorry man, I apologize- do not want to upset.
(I kid!!!!!)
I think you're a bit sensitive, no? |
I'm not Asian at all. (have a Japanese ancestor somewhere) The picture of me is a wee mee because I'm going to Korea!
I wouldn't mind discussing your Asian community
being 'honky's' comment though.
Am I being sensitive? not paticulary, I'm having an online debate, there are loads of them on here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fresh Prince
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: The glorious nation of Korea
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
I wouldn't mind discussing your Asian community
being 'honky's' comment though. |
No need, you'll understand when you get here. 
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
Am I being sensitive? not paticulary, I'm having an online debate, there are loads of them on here. |
You seem like a good guy so no hard feelings. Really though, I don't think the other poster was intending to be racist. The N word and racial issues are approached differently in different places. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Fresh Prince wrote: |
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
I wouldn't mind discussing your Asian community
being 'honky's' comment though. |
No need, you'll understand when you get here.
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
Am I being sensitive? not paticulary, I'm having an online debate, there are loads of them on here. |
You seem like a good guy so no hard feelings. Really though, I don't think the other poster was intending to be racist. The N word and racial issues are approached differently in different places. |
No worries mate , I thought Callo was British and my comments were written as such but in his latter post it doesn't look like he is, so apologies for any misunderstandings! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SuperFly
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: In the doghouse
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Something tells me I should've never posted this article. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bejarano-korea wrote: |
| And what you have to realize is that your opinion on the 'N' word doesn't not carry as much weight as the opinion of a black person. |
You're getting carried away. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ChimpumCallao wrote: |
| (the honkiest of all races, |
I can schedule you in for next Wednesday. Please bring your own body butter and loofah. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jg
Joined: 27 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The N word:
The media often plays it as if mainly uptight middle-class/bourgeouis or overly politicized blacks dislike it, whereas the younger generation sprinkles it on their cereal every morning. Not so. I chided one of my (black) students for saying it and he gave me the "aw, everybody says it" speech when a black girl and a Latino guy in the class started chewing him out for using it, and the girl admitted to struggling not to say it, and feeling funny about talking one way in front of her friends, yet not daring to say it in front of her parents. The Latino kid came up with an impromptu comparison of the N word and other ethnic slurs and asked the black kids where they drew the line if they had no boundaries per words they used. I teach in a heavily Latino/black part of Los Angeles county, just for perspective.
Black people, we are often disingenuous in our use of it. Yes, its often a term of endearment, but I have also heard it/used it to express the highest level of disdain or animosity possible many, many, many times. And I mean with the "a" and "er", a silly distinction that just appeared about 20 years ago when rappers began to stylistically misspell words and needed to explain themselves. Students that know me don't use it around me (I'm black) but when I first asked them to stop using it, for a week or so they would scream it at each other in my vicinity and glance sidelong at me. Another black male teacher told me he'd had the same problem. Maybe a bit impish, but definitely a bit rude too. I compare that to when I was their age (20 years ago) and adults were about, my friends and I were extremely careful about using it. To me, black culture is heading towards being like that Jane's addiction album cover "Nothings Shocking". I don't like such low standards and i feel its foul towards the older generations who set the table for us.
I have heard many Puerto Ricans use it, towards each other and towards non-hispanic blacks, I never take issue with it, and I've never seen any other blacks get angry at PR's for using it... I guess there is a sort of kinship with los boricuas? When I hear Asians - and it's usually Korean guys, but occasionally Korean girls - use it, it makes me kinda pissed off, and I get a vibe off them that's decidedly different from the vibe I get from Puerto Ricans. I have never known a white person who used it - at least not in a endearing way. And I have known some "urban" white people.
The word is just too freighted to ever be in common comfortable circulation outside the black community, and believe me, within the community there is still some debate, even in these vulgar times. I have stopped using it, and the friends I tell that too respect my wishes, but garden variety strangers? I don't know. So, if it's such a term of endearment, why does EVERYONE so often wield it as a weapon? Its a zombie word, it'll exhume itself. And WTF has the NAACP been all these years, hello? Now they decide to step up? Even stale ass celebrity-lard Rolling Stone magazine was reporting on it more than a decade again.
Last edited by jg on Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:46 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jg
Joined: 27 May 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
ChimpumCallao wrote:
(the honkiest of all races,
I can schedule you in for next Wednesday. Please bring your own body butter and loofah. |
Oh, and ChimpumCallo is from Peru, she cannot be too bad, I kinda like her posts for the most part. Nevermind the body butter, have her bring pisco sour. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jg wrote: |
The N word:
The media often plays it as if mainly uptight middle-class/bourgeouis or overly politicized blacks dislike it, whereas the younger generation sprinkles it on their cereal every morning. Not so. I chided one of my (black) students for saying it and he gave me the "aw, everybody says it" speech when a black girl and a Latino guy in the class started chewing him out for using it, and the girl admitted to struggling not to say it, and feeling funny about talking one way in front of her friends, yet not daring to say it in front of her parents. The Latino kid came up with an impromptu comparison of the N word and other ethnic slurs and asked the black kids where they drew the line if they had no boundaries per words they used. I teach in a heavily Latino/black part of Los Angeles county, just for perspective.
Black people, we are often disingenuous in our use of it. Yes, its often a term of endearment, but I have also heard it/used it to express the highest level of disdain or animosity possible many, many, many times. And I mean with the "a" and "er", a silly distinction that just appeared about 20 years ago when rappers began to stylistically misspell words and needed to explain themselves. Students that know me don't use it around me (I'm black) but when I first asked them to stop using it, for a week or so they would scream it at each other in my vicinity and glance sidelong at me. Another black male teacher told me he'd had the same problem. Maybe a bit impish, but definitely a bit rude too. I compare that to when I was their age (20 years ago) and adults were about, my friends and I were extremely careful about using it. To me, black culture is heading towards being like that Jane's addiction album cover "Nothings Shocking". I don't like such low standards and i feel its foul towards the older generations who set the table for us.
I have heard many Puerto Ricans use it, towards each other and towards non-hispanic blacks, I never take issue with it, and I've never seen any other blacks get angry at PR's for using it... I guess there is a sort of kinship with los boricuas? When I hear Asians - and it's usually Korean guys, but occasionally Korean girls - use it, it makes me kinda pissed off, and I get a vibe off them that's decidedly different from the vibe I get from Puerto Ricans. I have never known a white person who used it - at least not in a endearing way. And I have known some "urban" white people.
The word is just too freighted to ever be in common comfortable circulation outside the black community, and believe me, within the community there is still some debate, even in these vulgar times. I have stopped using it, and the friends I tell that too respect my wishes, but garden variety strangers? I don't know. So, if it's such a term of endearment, why does EVERYONE so often wield it as a weapon? Its a zombie word, it'll exhume itself. And WTF has the NAACP been all these years, hello? Now they decide to step up? Even stale ass celebrity-lard Rolling Stone magazine was reporting on it more than a decade again. |
Fantastic post and spot on! My final take on the subject was going to be, if N***** should be acceptable. Then why can't words like 'sambo' 'coon'
'jig' 'nig nog' 'kaffir' 'schwartzer' 'spade' etc these are all words that come from the same toilet! When I have discussed with people about the 'N' word and their use with it, I ask "why not use the word 'sambo' or
'sooty' or 'darkie'" Why don't these rappers reclaim the wod ''jig' or 'spearchucker' ?
If the 'N' is one day made acceptable. This means that racist abuse will become acceptable, that is opening a pandoras box of language that we as humans have long evolved from. Through education and more enlightened ideas which I for one embrace and so do most of the people around me.
PS: one thing you will notice and it has been done on purpose. even though nigger cannot be typed on this forum, words like sambo can, now why is this? is it because racist abuse IS offensive, we all know it is
and is never ever used because it belongs to the dustbin of the past? Let us bury the 'N' word along with the other disgusting racist crap and move on with humanity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jg wrote: |
| Quote: |
ChimpumCallao wrote:
(the honkiest of all races,
I can schedule you in for next Wednesday. Please bring your own body butter and loofah. |
Oh, and ChimpumCallo is from Peru, she cannot be too bad, I kinda like her posts for the most part. Nevermind the body butter, have her bring pisco sour. |
My old lady is from Peru.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
