Korean Job Discussion Forums

[princess]

I believe two people who don't speak each other's language fluently can still be quite close. I don't think language is that big of a deal. Two people can speak the same language fluently and still have zero in common. But I do know that some Korean men are bothered by not speaking enough English if they date a western woman. Even if the western woman speaks enough Korean to carry on a half-decent convo, the Korean man still worries about his lack of Englsih ability, not to mention what his mommy/daddy/society thinks. I also think many Koreans are ashamed/embarassed to be sene with whitey. Damn! I need summer vacation to hurry and get here, so I can have a break from this place.

[excitinghead]

Jeez, what a sad-ass thread this is. Where do all you guys live? I'm not saying you're wrong, but we have very different experiences of Korean women.

Personally, I've been accepted into my wife's family with open arms, so have two of my drinking buddies with their wives' families, although I do admit that one friend is still a secret to his girlfriend's parents (but not sisters), and so there's definate issues, sure. But in all the time I've been here, I've met and hung out with dozens and dozens of happily married 'international couples.' And before I met my wife, I dated and had relationships with Korean girls, and they were in to me and never played the '희망고문' (Hope-Torture) routine with me and didn't call me back after one date. Actually they were all much more serious and into me than I was, and not being ready for that I always ended it first.

Yeah, you have to learn Korean to make lasting friends and or have serious relationships in Korea...Sorry, but duh! How many of you complaining about Korean girls have made a genuine commitment to learning the language and knowing Korea better? I don't mean picking up a beginners Korean book every odd hungover Sunday. My Korean female friends say Korean women too tire of foreigners who think they are God's gift to Korean women because they can say more Korean than "맥주 한병 주세요," especially older ones who gone through the giggly "Oooh, you can speak Korean so well" phase and are more likely to want a relationship. If you want that here, you have to show that you're going to stick around. And languge-wise, that doesn't mean you have to be fluent: you can be a beginner, but spending much of your freetime learning such a difficult language just for her sake is a pretty good sign for most women.

Birds of a feather flock together guys. If you've had one or two bad experiences with Korean women and are ready to write them off, then they're probably not going to warm to you either.

[kiwiduncan]

I'm in the UK at the moment, teaching here and planning to return to Korea around November.

I've found myself in an amusing reversal of what so many foreigners in Korea experience. I've been keen to maintain my Korean even in the UK so have arranged some language exchanges with my students. But no matter how much I want to practice Korean, it's impossible to form any real friendship with my partners. They are really sincere, nice, decent people but apart from wanting to exchange languages we have nothing in common.

For that reason I'm tending to act like a lot of the Koreans you have described - finding excuses not to meet, saying I'm 'busy' at lunchtime and generally letting the students down. I've decided it's best not to waste their time or show false interest, so these days I'm just not really hanging out with Koreans at all. I'll just focus on reading and vocab while I am in the UK and meet Koreans with the same interests (cycling and tree-hugging) when I get back to Korea.

I remember mountain biking Korean friends who were never interested in English. One guy didn't let on that he could speak English until after we'd met several times. Others refused my offer to speak in English for their listening practice. All they wanted to do was go riding and drink makkeolli. It was cool

[HapKi]

Why no Korean friends? Because the majority of foreigners (and I'd say that majority is higher for Daves posters) don't show an interest in the culture other than work, drinking and chasing Itaewon girls. Why would the average Korean guy even bother. Look at this thread so far- all its mostly been about is trying to chase skirts. Sad.

Making friends is the same anywhere, in my opinion. You share a common interest- be it a hobby, sport or job, and it builds from there. Even a language exchange could be a basis, if its equally give/take.

I'd ask all foreigners here- who are your friends anyway? What have you got other than your co-workers and going out? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Julius]

I agree a lot with kiwiduncan...

I don't find it hard having K-women who are into me and want to date me either.

problem is though, getting the one that you want, and this is where you get led all over the garden path.

Seems to me that korean women are generally quite a handful, so given that, it only becomes worthwhile to go through it if she's a hottie or somehow very attractive.

If I was happy to settle for just an average ok g/f I would have been married many times over here already.

[ella]

Most of my friends where I live are Korean although my friends in other cities tend to be foreigners like me. The Koreans I'm friends with are students, teachers, administrators, female, male. They are usually well-traveled and speak pretty good English. We generally have several interests in common: theater, politics, business, fitness, religion, dining, travel. They're people I've come into contact with through work or other friends and with whom I just "clicked." Hasn't been a problem for me at all. They're the kind of people I'd be friends with in any country.

[mack4289]

Living in foreign countries on three different continents I can say that I haven't developed close friendships with the natives in any of these places. It's easier to meet people in countries where there's more of an emphasis on meeting new people (Koreans seem more hesitant to do that) but ultimately the vast majority of people are going to hang out with those you have more in common with. I don't think there's anything wrong with that- the problem is when you start thinking it's wrong for people from different cultures to want to hang out together.

[kiwiduncan]

[mack4289]

Thais is strange- I was going to link to the article on the front page of the JA Daily about this but the article doesn't show up in the online edition. The article says that Lotte Mart has sold two tons of US beef since allowing it back on the market, more than 4 times the sales figures of import beef for all of last week.

[pest2]

Here's another reason why its hard to make friends if yer a foreigner in Korea:

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=92916&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15


See, its a natural part of all Korean relationships to have a quid pro quo of favors and use whereas for most western relationships, its the ideal, though not always the actual outcome, for there not to be a quid pro quo.

So, Koreans are very very nice and friendly to you and even each other because its like advertising. They are trying to sell themselves the same way a real estate agent or stock broker or car salesman would befriend you to get you to buy something. After they make the sale, no need to keep being nice.

It's all tied together, you know: They are sensitive to losing face BECAUSE they have to maintain thier reputations. They have to maintain thier reputations so they can make lots of practical relationships. They have to make lots of practical relationships so they can get what they need. If they lose face, it could be seriously detrimental to them at some level...

I dont think its mostly due to language why we can't click with Koreans for 2 reasons: 1) having lived in 4 countries now, not being able to click with natives in a foreign country is unique to Korea. 2) you simply dont need to have deep conversations to click with someone unless you are a cerebral nerd. Usually, just appreciating the human condition is enough.

I dont think its just foreigners Koreans tend to exclude. The truth is that Koreans cant even be friends with each other if theyre not the same age, status, etc etc. They are so so good at making these kinds of superficial friendships because the probability they'd find someone they click with naturally who is their age and status is very low.. so they make friends on the basis of need and not want, usability and not chemistry.

To give you an example, I recently had a Korean friend (I thought). Although she was using me and I was using her, I thought there was some kind of click or spiritual connection between us. (I am engaged to a non-korean/crazy woman, so it was only like a real friendship). We even helped her get a job in the USA as a teacher. I spent a whole day with her in the car driving to the city and having actual deep conversations about life and pretty much anything you would have with anyone you considered your friend.

She doesnt even like Korea. She doesnt like the dogmatic Korean ways, social inequities, and food...; maybe thats why she was so eager to leave. The week before she was going to leave Korea, she spent many hours meeting with all her co workers, teachers, etc etc THAT SHE HAD SPENT SO MUCH TIME COMPLAINING ABOUT BEFORE, but she didnt even have time to meet us to get together for a goodbye coffee.

She was going to have a going-away dinner, but she didnt invite us, "because the Koreans at the dinner would feel uncomfortable.." It was obvious that we were not part of "that click" or "that other click".

Because they use people in a very organized and meticulous way, they are very careful about social engagements. But no social engagement purports to any intrinsic value in a relationship.

Anyway, I was pretty pissed after that... and I stopped talking to her.. and then, the night she was going to leave, SHE STILL HAD THE NERVE TO CALL ME TO ASK ME TO HELP HER MOVE HER BOXES OUT!!!... I said no, flat out. Nice knowin ya buh bye.

I feel sorry for them. They live in a socially-ill, deprived, and deranged society from which there is no escape. They are forced to act like parasites and I dont think they actually like it... Anyway, more than anything, I'm glad I can leave Korea!

[jg]

Excitinghead wrote:

[pest2]

[pest2]

[princess]

I think many people prefer to hang with their own race. Sad but true. Even in the states, you see most Mexicans hanging with other Mexicans, they don't all try to learn English, etc.

[kingplaya4]

Korean guys don't seem to want to be friends with foreign guys if they aren't into heavy drinking. I asked our homework teacher a question about how to pronounce a Korean word, and then he comes into my classroom a few minutes later.

He asks me the usual questions about why I'm learning Korean. Then he asks me if I want to go out drinking with him. I told him I'm sorry, but I don't drink. He immediately bolted out of the room before I could think of something else to offer him.