Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Anicca]

I've taught adults for over a year now, and I always ask them if they like the book. And the majority says no. I teach intermediate and advanced and I've used Interchange, which I really like, Side by Side, and Top Notch, along with some in-house books we developed.

What's the deal with this? You guys have the same experience? Am I missing some great adult text book? I also bring in handouts from various other sources, including some idiom books, etc. They seem to like this more.

My take is that they just don't like any textbook, since it feels too much like school. I find they just want free-talking, but at their level, only free-talking is unproductive and they can't say much.

My korean wife says that Korean students like to get handouts, as they think it's sort of the "teacher's key points" and they feel the teacher is making more effort.

I tend to feel only handouts seems kind of ghetto and there's no systematic progress, which you at least get the feeling for, if you're using a textbook as a basis.

[some waygug-in]

Try using some things from Jazz English...and see how it goes.


Generally students hate all textbooks because they are usually culturally alien to anything the students have experienced. Having books that have some elements of Korean life do help, but there is no guarantee.

I also like using Small Group Discussion Topics by Jack Martire...but the vocabulary may be too advanced for some of your lower level classes.


You could also try doing something like ....the first 20 minutes of class is based around the textbook and the rest is based on something you've created, but related in some way to what the textbook is doing.

Hope this helps

[tob55]

There are a number of reasons, but the one that comes to mind right away is that Korean adults are more interested in real language that is generated through conversation rather than scripted dialogue from a text...I worked with a number of Korean adults in the last four years and they prefer things that can be found in the newspaper and converted to a learning activity for them to go through doing Q & A...Another idea they like is having a current event as a topic of discussion that allows them to expand their language in a more natural way rather than following the traditional methodologies used in the standard English learning text...Of course you will find different groups have their own personality, but in my experience the main reason is that they want authentic conversation rather than something scripted in a book...

[spyro25]

my beginner adults really enjoy a korean english textbook - bad form perhaps but it does provide a safety net for you if your adults are the complaining type (i have worked without textbooks for the same class with very positive results, but as this class rotates every month with different students sometimes their ability is so low that a korean textbook is sometimes required, if anything just to provide a context for the language function you are going to introduce that day)

i recommend lee gun chol's 'yong oh concert' (english concert) as a good place to start for beginners.

if they are not beginners then i would recommend not using a textbook at all, if anything just to build your teaching repertoire a bit and get some experience making your own materials.

also www.breakingnewsenglish.com is a GOLDMINE for teachers trying to teach adults. one of the BEST esl websites out there - filled with activities you can use to build a weeks classes.

[Anicca]

Thanks for all the good replies!
I do like bringing in 'real world' materials and then basing lessons from there. The problem I feel is that over a few months, there's no real systematic learning going on. It's kind of hit and miss. Or at least it feels this way to me.

And I agree, Breaking News English is awesome.

Anybody have them read the conversations and memorize? Almost every book has these, but I don't use it, as I feel it's "scripted" as someone said, and kind of boring overall. I usually have them make their own conversations/role plays using the new vocabulary/idioms. They generally dislike this too, but too bad, not all language learning is "fun." I feel adults generally expect it to be fun. Unfortunately, I'm not sure it *can* always be fun.

[Jizzo T. Clown]

Give them a list of topics (maybe 25 or so) and ask them to rank them in order of interest. They can decide in pairs, then in groups of 4, then as a class. There's your syllabus for the course, and if they complain, they have only themselves to blame.

This worked great for my Business English students, as they felt since they helped to create the "curriculum," it was in their best interest to participate and try to "make it fun."

FWIW the teacher can only make the lesson as fun as his students will let him, especially with adults.

[ddeubel]

As many might know, I've always been suspicious of "the textbook". I think the students are onto something.

Nothing is cut and dry, but the textbook really can be used for more bad than good. It gives the illusion at times, that learning is happening (and conversely teaching) when in fact little is (though as always, there is always learning -- this salient point makes it hard to critique teaching and unless the teacher is just being negligent, most can get away with little effective teaching because hey, "it's up to the students" and learning happens despite).

I have 8 really interactive, music and activity driven powerpoints made so far which lend themself to the "textbookless" classroom. Meaning, the teacher puts up the powerpoint, students question the teacher as the slides go along. Then, they question in pairs. Slides can be set for a proper interval. Then there is an activity, music and extension....on all topics. I plan by Sept. to have 15-20 solid ones. A great resource for new teachers who can just enter into the classroom, put it on and have "real" English happening.

So far, Money and Shopping / Basic Interview / Travel / Preferences / Family & Friends / Sports & Hobbies ...

I do agree though - the best teaching comes when the teacher brings into the classroom real materials and alters for their students. Slowly they gain valuable insight into the learning curve/process.

DD

[postfundie]

[Juregen]

[Corky]

I recommend "Express Yourself" by Duane Vorhees, which is published by LISKorea.

You can find it in most bookstores and online. It's a book comprised of a series of short texts followed by questions for "free-talking". There are listening and diaglogue work as well as related idioms, but I rarely use those. It's worked well for me, although I alternate between breakingnewsenglish and other activities.

I think it may be good for you because I was in a similar situation and it really helped.

[tomato]

I have a theory on that:

Throughout most of our primeval past, we continued to learn, but from many different sources. This changed only when schools were established. That may have been thousands of years ago, but a thousand years is like a fleeting picosecond in Evolutionary time.

I have to confine my students to the same place at the same time every day, but I try to simulate a variety of sources by collecting a wide assortment of games, songs, and picture books. When the textbook talks about verbs, I use songs, games, and picture books about verbs. Likewise for adjectives, singular and plural, or any other topic.

Never mind whether cartoons, photographs, or line drawings are the best illustrations for teaching materials. It is a variety of illustrations which matters the most.

The reason that your students like handout sheets is that the handout sheets are different and the textbook is not. It doesn't matter whether you use Side by Side as the textbook and copy handout sheets from Interchange or whether you use Interchange as teh textbook and copy handout sheets from Side by Side. The handout sheets will always win.

My advice is to stick with whatever textbook your students have already bought, but to make a collection of other textbooks and get on the Microsoft Excel program. Make an entry for each topic and the pages covering that topic in each textbook.

Then, for each topic which you cover in class, cover it in the textbook first. Then reinforce that material by covering the corresponding pages in each of the textbooks from the handout sheets.

[Jizzo T. Clown]

tomato has given some excellent advice. It pays to get materials related to the topic from different sources. The table of contents in any book is a great place to start.

If the students like handouts so much, tell them to stop bringing their book to class and just start photocopying material from the text. Its funny, with my students, any time I make up a handout half of them leave it behind. At least they'll remember to take their textbook with them when they leave. Even when I say "Don't forget your papers!" they still do. Arghhh!!