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just another day
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!
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 Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| taobenli wrote: |
By my reasoning, one reason to respond with a "Konnichi wa" or "ni hao" in response to a "hello" is to teach a lesson that not all white people speak English, just like all Asians don't speak Chinese, etc.
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well i would understand u being mad if you weren't an english speaker and soemone assumed u spoke english.
but u ARE an english speaker! most koreans get angry for being mistaken for being chinese. koreans don't get mad for being recognized as korean.  |
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SeoulFinn
Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Location: 1h from Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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No "banmal" in English?
Dude, even barbaric Finnish language has ways of elevating the listener and thus showing respect. For example T-V distinction (link to wikipedia article). Finnish may not be as refined as Korean or Japanese when it comes to show differences between the speakers, though, but it is there. |
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Axl Rose
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: crazies and witty comebacks |
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| just another day wrote: |
| Kimchi Cha Cha wrote: |
| just another day wrote: |
in english, there is no such thing as banmal, so that point is irrelevant.
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That's something I hear a lot over here, usually from arrogant students when I call them out for using banmal with me, but it's not entirely true.
In English, we have levels of politeness, whereas you can say essentially the same thing in a number of different ways but some are more polite than others. This is not as cut and dry as the Korean levels of politeness in speech but it exists nevertheless.
When greeting someone, I could say: Hey, Hi, Hello, Hello, Sir/Ma'am
This example is very similar to the Korean levels of speech as these words roughly translate to Korean as 야, 안녕, 안녕하세요, 선생님, 안녕하십니까?
If you meet your boss for the first time, you're unlikely to say 'Hey' to them - unless you want to get fired right there and then. Saying 'Hey' to someone you don't know, to someone in a formal setting such as a business meeting or someone who's older than you or in a higher position is extremely rude. Just like saying 야 to an older Korean.
Another example is when asking someone to pass the salt, there's several different ways to say depending on politeness.
'Would you please pass me the salt?"
"Could you please pass me the salt?"
"Hey, pass the salt, would ya?"
Another example is when asking someone to repeat something you didn't hear:
"Excuse me, would you please repeat that?"
"Sorry, can you repeat that?"
"What was that? I didn't catch it."
"What?"
So, whereas English might not have banmal per se, it definitely has levels of speech and if you go around talking to people with the lowest level of speech it will be viewed as rude. I always try to teach my students this as they could inadvertently get into trouble going to the West using casual language alone. |
I know you are trying to make a point about similiarities between english and korean, and perhaps you are truly a teacher who is in the top 1% of understanding bridges and getting people to understand.
okay well, i can see your point somewhat.
inclusion of certain words...
but being polite isn't seem the same as being polite in korea. in korea being polite means u are well mannered, while in the US, being polite is seen as a sign of weakness and being a pushover. |
That's hilarious. 
btw, your posts remind me very much of a previous poster - a Korean-American girl living in CA if my memory serves me correctly.
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| so, i think the mistake in comparison is cultural, not linguistic. altho i can agree with u the linguistic parallel exists (in a more difficult way), but the culture parallel isn't really there. |
The most important difference between English and Korean manners is the strict issue of age in Korean. Other than that (and verb conjugation), levels of speech in Korean and English are analogous.
English-speakers who study Korean learn the manners straight away. You will never hear an English-speaker say 야! 밥 더 줘 to a server whereas a Korean will think nothing of saying "give me more rice". That's not because Koreans are dumber; it's because English manners are harder to learn. This is one of the more challenging aspects of teaching Koreans. |
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just another day
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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axl rose, please look at the previous page at the way bottom. I acknowledged your knowledge and wisdom.
| taobenli wrote: |
Just another day, stop fighting with the other posters.  |
sometimes i like fighting... hehe ^^
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| Another thing: I am not an English teacher here, and my only reason for being here is to learn Korean. So, perhaps that explains why I'm sometimes snarky when I'm accosted in English. But, like I said, if it's kids that talk to me then I'm happy to respond in a mixture of English and Korean. |
well, I dunno, most koreans in the US always get mistaken for chinese and japanese, they would be genuinely happy if someone realized they were korean. i kid you not. its a different complex.
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I am still puzzles over what to say about racist comments not directed at me, but about other races, which makes me very uncomfortable. What would you say?
Keep them coming, and stop fighting about formal and informal speech! If you get it, you get it, and if you don't, you don't... |
i get the formal informal thing now that axl rose explained it in a way i understood hehe.
and racist comments about other races, well you have to understand that the most vivid image that korea has of african americans is the televised 1992 LA Riots. When African Americans burned down thousands of Korean stores. And the other exposure Koreans have to mexicans and blacks is Hollywood, where they are mostly portrayed as Thugs and criminals and poor people.
Seriously, imagine if the only time you saw a Chinese ever in your life was William Hung. What would you think of Chinese guys? Know what i mean? At least you seem to be from an urban area so you know the William Hung thing isn't true right? But in korea, the ONLY time most of Koreans see blacks or mexicans is from Hollywood movies. Now name one hollywood movie that portrays blacks and mexicans as NORMAL people who are not thugs or criminals. its pretty rare.
but i suppose it is difficult to explain that whole thing to koreans as a white person... right? so at least you could sort of understand if someone says something ignorant...no? just say "ahh everything in hollywood is not true..." or something like that...
Last edited by just another day on Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Axl Rose
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| just another day wrote: |
| taobenli wrote: |
By my reasoning, one reason to respond with a "Konnichi wa" or "ni hao" in response to a "hello" is to teach a lesson that not all white people speak English, just like all Asians don't speak Chinese, etc.
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well i would understand u being mad if you weren't an english speaker and soemone assumed u spoke english.
but u ARE an english speaker! most koreans get angry for being mistaken for being chinese. koreans don't get mad for being recognized as korean. |
It doesn't matter whether he or she IS an English-speaker.
This poster is concerned, as a general principle of morality and education, that Koreans believe all white people are English speakers (falsely including Germans, Russians, Poles, etc etc etc) and all English speakers are white (falsely excluding the ethnic minorities that live in the West).
It's a noble cause. I myself (because I'm very crochity and love messing with people) often pretend to be Russian, so when a Korean kid says "hi" I politely explain that we do not use that expression in my country.
The standard of education in Korea is very low. It really is a mixture of the 1st and 3rd world. |
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just another day
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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^ actually, it does matter. because it was right.
if a polish person is complaining, let them complain first. don't deprive soemone elses right to speak for themselves. do you PERSONALLY know a russian or a polish person who complained about that? why assume they do then? thats arrogance in itself.
haha see how many canadians pretend to be american when the image of america is good. i don't see any canadians complaining when its a good thing. |
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Axl Rose
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| just another day wrote: |
| ^ actually, it does matter. because it was right. |
It's better, smarter, more polite to consider the possibility that they might be of a non-English speaking nationality. There are many Russians in Korea and I have met people from Finland, Germany and Paris. So, one day, a Korean will go up to a Russian or Parisian person, say 하이이이이이이이이이이 and look rather silly.
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| if a polish person is complaining, let them complain first. don't deprive soemone elses right to speak for themselves. |
Irrational blather. Keep the conversation serious and avoid stooping to an inferior level of consciousness. The universe deserves better.
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| do you PERSONALLY know a russian or a polish person who complained about that? |
Yes. I've discussed the matter many times. Next door to my school live a German couple who I regularly dine with. We have a hearty chuckle at the funny things we experience in this country!
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| why assume they do then? thats arrogance in itself. |
I'm very arrogant - I'd be the first to admit it.
I'm not merely an English-teacher. I'm a civilizer, a sterilizer.
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| haha see how many canadians pretend to be american when the image of america is good. i don't see any canadians complaining when its a good thing. |
Irrelevant. |
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just another day
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Axl Rose wrote: |
| just another day wrote: |
| ^ actually, it does matter. because it was right. |
It's better, smarter, more polite to consider the possibility that they might be of a non-English speaking nationality. There are many Russians in Korea and I have met people from Finland, Germany and Paris. So, one day, a Korean will go up to a Russian or Parisian person, say 하이이이이이이이이이이 and look rather silly.
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| if a polish person is complaining, let them complain first. don't deprive soemone elses right to speak for themselves. |
Irrational blather. Keep the conversation serious and avoid stooping to an inferior level of consciousness. The universe deserves better.
| Quote: |
| do you PERSONALLY know a russian or a polish person who complained about that? |
Yes. I've discussed the matter many times. Next door to my school live a German couple who I regularly dine with. We have a hearty chuckle at the funny things we experience in this country!
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| why assume they do then? thats arrogance in itself. |
I'm very arrogant - I'd be the first to admit it.
I'm not merely an English-teacher. I'm a civilizer, a sterilizer. |
and do you speak to the german couple in german? or english?
how did you meet them and what language did you speak to them when u first met them?
i guess we're done now. 
me personally, I like the echo sound after someone reads my comments. |
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nateium
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| just another day wrote: |
| chasmmi wrote: |
say
미안하지만, 내가 영어 못하는때 한국어 할 수 있어요? |
good one!!! |
-my girlfriend saw this and says it should be
미안하지만, 내가 영어 못하는데 한국어 할 수 있어요? |
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Axl Rose
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| just another day wrote: |
| Axl Rose wrote: |
| just another day wrote: |
| ^ actually, it does matter. because it was right. |
It's better, smarter, more polite to consider the possibility that they might be of a non-English speaking nationality. There are many Russians in Korea and I have met people from Finland, Germany and Paris. So, one day, a Korean will go up to a Russian or Parisian person, say 하이이이이이이이이이이 and look rather silly.
| Quote: |
| if a polish person is complaining, let them complain first. don't deprive soemone elses right to speak for themselves. |
Irrational blather. Keep the conversation serious and avoid stooping to an inferior level of consciousness. The universe deserves better.
| Quote: |
| do you PERSONALLY know a russian or a polish person who complained about that? |
Yes. I've discussed the matter many times. Next door to my school live a German couple who I regularly dine with. We have a hearty chuckle at the funny things we experience in this country!
| Quote: |
| why assume they do then? thats arrogance in itself. |
I'm very arrogant - I'd be the first to admit it.
I'm not merely an English-teacher. I'm a civilizer, a sterilizer. |
and do you speak to the german couple in german? or english? |
Relevance?
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| how did you meet them and what language did you speak to them when u first met them? |
Relevance?
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| i guess we're done now. |
Why?
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| me personally, I like the echo sound after someone reads my comments. |
huh? |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| nateium wrote: |
| just another day wrote: |
| chasmmi wrote: |
say
미안하지만, 내가 영어 못하는때 한국어 할 수 있어요? |
good one!!! |
-my girlfriend saw this and says it should be
미안하지만, 내가 영어 못하는데 한국어 할 수 있어요? |
It's nice of you to be anal on your girlfriend's behalf.
| nateium wrote: |
| -my girlfriend saw this and says it should be |
My wife saw this and said it should be:
"My girlfriend saw this and said it should be:"
Bravo our lives.
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| just another day wrote: |
| toddswift wrote: |
| just another day wrote: |
| toddswift wrote: |
just teach them something terrible......
korean: How are you today
me: How is your yeast infection
korean: Huh
ME: YEAST INFECTION
YEEE SSSSSSSSSST INNNNNNNN FECCCTIOOOON.
YEAST INFECTION.
koran: yeEEEEEssinfection
ME: VERY GOOD! |
don't worry, i'll be close by listening. |
why, do you have a yeast infection. Its nothing to be ashamed of, some girl posted she had one recently. I think koreans should learn real english. That way if their teacher does have a yeast infection, it can explain a lot of things, like why the room smells like a clogged sewer. |
are u from calgary? i hear people from calgary are real jerks. |
Oh!, another reject from Aisafinest.com!
The posters there that are racist idiots (not all of them are) are lucky to have that man from Calgary on their forum helping them get over their nasty racism |
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chasmmi
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Ulsan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| nateium wrote: |
| just another day wrote: |
| chasmmi wrote: |
say
미안하지만, 내가 영어 못하는때 한국어 할 수 있어요? |
good one!!! |
-my girlfriend saw this and says it should be
미안하지만, 내가 영어 못하는데 한국어 할 수 있어요? |
Hey I'm proud that I managed to put the sentence together with no grammer mistakes and just the one spelling error. I'm rarely that accurate when typing in English.
Hooray for me  |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: |
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delete
Last edited by tomato on Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:41 am Post subject: Re: crazies and witty comebacks |
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| taobenli wrote: |
A Korean (friend or aquaintance) makes an uncomfortable racist comment about Black/Hispanic, etc. people. Translating literally to say "You're a racist" has nothing like the effect it would have in the U.S. What's a way to say (not word for word, but in real natural Korean) something along the lines of "Go back to your cave" or "that's a really backward way to think"?
-Clerks in stores take forever to give you the total in English when they don't really know English: what has worked for me is saying "영어 잘하시네요!" even when they don't. Most clerks have gotten flustered by this and responded in Korean.
-Crazy/drunk/unmannered ajosshi yells "hello" and gestures on the street: just once, I have turned around and done a little bow while saying "Konnichi wa" (Ni hao would probably work just as well), and the response was surprise and then annoyance. |
I like your responses to the second two. Maybe something along the same lines - ironic and condescending - would work for the first situation too? Like saying to a racist they must be really well-educated. Not sure what the right way to phrase it would be. Maybe "잘 교육되시네요!" or "교양 참 좋구나!"? |
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