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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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 Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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DD:
You desire as a non American for the impeachment of Bush/Cheney is quite silly. All you get is a wish, not a vote. In short, you don't count.
The truth is truth, is the truth . . . Oh golly gee whiz! How droll!
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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So what's this all about?
http://www.911truth.org/
The video is pretty interesting, but unfortunately, I don't think it proves anything. The second video however, documents all the lies that were hurled forth. (click on the read more tab to find the 2nd vid)
Or if that's not you your liking, how about this one?
http://www.peaceandjustice.it/j23-impeach.php
Impeach Them Both! - now there's a thought. 
Last edited by some waygug-in on Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:56 pm Post subject: ... |
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Nowhere Man: so what? You are trying too hard at whatever it is that you have appointed yourself to do. I remain flattered that you pay so careful attn to what I write here. Glad I can help educate you.
Let us continue with your education: the first quote states my views on a specific issue; the second deals with a hypothetical that you raised in bad-faith more than a year ago, Mr. Gopher Groupie.
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Sparing the psychoanalysis, yes please do educate me. In that thread from the long bygone era of 2006, Mr. Historian, you also stated that you thought there were grounds for censure. Let's start there. Do you still think there are grounds for censure? Or did you delete your posts from so long long long ago because you changed your mind? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
So what's this all about?
http://www.911truth.org/
The video is pretty interesting, but unfortunately, I don't think it proves anything. The second video however, documents all the lies that were hurled forth. (click on the read more tab to find the 2nd vid)
Or if that's not you your liking, how about this one?
http://www.peaceandjustice.it/j23-impeach.php
Impeach Them Both! - now there's a thought. |
Screw loose change will take down all 9-11. Conspiracy theories.
9-11 theorists for the most part are Nazis trying to make a comeback.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/
| Quote: |
Latest Nuttery
The 9-11 Truthers have made peace with some forces of the antiwar movement, the impeachment movement and the anti-globalization movement to try to get rid of Bush. Now, I know that might sound attractive to some of you, but it's going to happen anyway come January 2009. And aligning yourself with the Truthers is a guaranteed method of marginalizing yourselves, as this statement of sheer fruitcake reveals:
We appeal to leftists, progressives, conservatives, libertarians, independents, and those entering or re-entering politics to transcend the artificial divisions that have diminished their impact. The antiwar, impeachment, anti-globalization, labor, civil rights, veterans, anti-tax, civil liberties, honest election, and 9/11 truth movements�along with civic and progressive religious groups and other issue groups�have been weakened too long by single issues and narrow focus. It is time for these movements to unite as a national coalition on a common platform for independent action. We call for a united front of all organizations and persons of good will based on the following:
1. Impeach, remove, and indict Bush, Cheney and their henchmen.
2. End all wars. All U.S. troops must be brought home at once from Afghanistan and Iraq by any means necessary, including the immediate cutoff of funding.
3. No Bush police-state dictatorship. Repeal the Patriot Act, restore full habeas corpus, respect the Bill of Rights and the Geneva Convention.
4. Government by the People, not by cliques of bankers and financiers.
5. 9/11 truth. Publish the full 9/11 documentation, and re-open the investigation. |
Throw out a 9-11 conspiracy theory and watch it taken down.
http://www.debunking911.com/
http://www.911myths.com/
The real conspiracy :
9-11 theorists for the most part are neo Nazi types trying to make a comeback. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| The_Conservative wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
[you would have to prove that Bush deliberately misled the public. There is no such proof.
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Exactly. And that is where it ends. Pretty much all the mainstream magazines have come to the same conclusion. Both TIME and NEWSWEEK have stated there is no proof Bush knowingly lied.
The Economist, not exactly a Bush stronghold, has also called these claims into question saying that they seem to be "nonsense" |
However, there is nothing wrong with an investigation to see what Bush knew when it comes to Iraq, what documents were out there, what Tenet said, and have these people under oath. The American people deserve that. There hasn't been a proper investigation of Bush and the administration, so we are going based on what we don't know. We can't say that he is impeachable or not without a proper investigation. With what we know now he is not, but it seems patently clear that many people from both parties felt they were misled. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| ...you would have to prove that...There is no such proof...There is circumstantial evidence that... |
At least you recognize this. At the end of the day, these people have nothing but their ill-tempered, cynical worldviews and their impressions that W. Bush must have done something impeachable.
They are entitlted to whatever worldview and whatever impression they would like. Many get the impression that Hollywood staged Neil Armtstrong's moon landing, for example. Others have the impression that W. Bush perpetrated 9/11. Lo que sea.
I wish these people would stop forcing their worldviews and impressions onto the rest of us, however, especially their shrill and sarcastic tone of voice. |
It does not mean I oppose subpoenas, a proper investigation to get to the bottom of what the Bush Administration knew about Iraq. However, they will voice presidential privilege. I am not sure how one can investigate this.
I would like to see him under oath and have him questioned and under record. Taking a country to war is very, very, very serious. It is one thing if you are honest about it and say you are there to secure oil supplies and you believe removing Saddam Hussein would bring stability to the region. I am not for impeachment proceedings based on what is available, but I am all for an investigation into the war and what happened and who knew what and when. The people deserve that since they are going to pay for the hundreds of billions of dollars paid and 4,000 of their young men perished. I think many people want answers and not necessarily an impeachment. However, if 45% of the population want impeachment that is pretty serious. It shows there is a lot of anger out there. These people who are surrounding shrill, as you said, are almost mainstream. They are just 5% short of being half the population.
I am not for quick withdrawal, pushing for impeachment, cutting off funding for troops... It may do more harm than good.. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| It does not mean I oppose subpoenas, a proper investigation... |
Whoever said otherwise? I want facts, not impressions and allegations, however.
Anybody here have any to cite? |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: ... |
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| You've previously stated that there are grounds for censure. Were you talking facts or just making allegations? |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Ddeubel: I am not going to put this one into prose. Prose will not work. But I have another analogy, a much tighter analogy (less the catwalks and swimwear, of course ).
That is right. You guessed it. I think many of you on the far left sound too much like beauty pageant contestants in the interviews-on-the-issues segment. |
Gopher,
Please, please, do, put me in a wordly stew......
I also would say that there are many intelligent people with many diverse opinions on many issues. To paint with one brush, those who believe in whatever they do, as "beauty pageant" bimbos just isn't a very astute analogy. Even us, who despise Bush, don't do such and treat his intelligence as it is -- misplaced. He isn't stupid but rather just absent in his own way.
| Quote: |
| Because, Ddeubel, in any case, I am sincerely trying to figure out how to talk to people on the left. No joy so far. |
I don't doubt your sincerity but you have to loosen your drawers and stop looking at your left / right compass. Also, please refrain saying "these" people. You sound like a KKK, never declare I am one, deep south, crew cut, never been off my block, like the i zzzz dotted, t ssss Christian crossed type. You aren't.
I also take exception with your assertion that everything against Bush is "allegation". What planet have you been living on to say such? There are very valid and tight grounds to pursue the President for negligent actions as President and failure to properly carry out the office (which is what impeachment is). Very strong, overwhelming evidence despite the tune of secrecy and lack of transparency this administration marches to. I won't even bother to list -- just echo again - what planet have you been living on. I think you'd probably go down with the ship if George said it would bring heaven to earth.
DD
And right now I'm listening to Bush "analyze" Iraq and spewing out the words "al qaeda" about two million times......he thinks he's in a Batman movie and the mayor of Gotham city...... simple simon needs his pie man....
Contrarian -- I am a citizen of the world. |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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DD said:
Contrarian -- I am a citizen of the world.
I hate to burst your bubble. There is no such thing. Check whatever passport(s) you have. I am a citizen of Canada and have an Israeli passport that says Israel. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
| I hate to burst your bubble. There is no such thing... |
Well there is in the La-La Land where our idealistic, beauty-pageant-like leftist friends live, Contrarian.
Stop troubling them with reality.
In any case, Ddeubel, or shall I just call you "Jack Dawson?": I would pay a lot of money for the privilege to hear you self-righteously assert "I am a citizen of the world!" next time you pass through an immigration check-point and an official asks for your passport... |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: ... |
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| Stop troubling them with reality. |
Indeed. Back to reality. Do you still think there are grounds for censure? |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
DD said:
Contrarian -- I am a citizen of the world.
I hate to burst your bubble. There is no such thing. Check whatever passport(s) you have. I am a citizen of Canada and have an Israeli passport that says Israel. |
I hate to burst yours. Deities don't give countries to tribes. |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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jkelly:
My Canadian passport say in both English and French that I am a Canadian Citizen.
My Israeli passport says in Hebrew Citizen by right of the law of the return.
Hmm? Where does it say citizen of the world - can't find it aywhere. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
jkelly:
My Canadian passport say in both English and French that I am a Canadian Citizen.
My Israeli passport says in Hebrew Citizen by right of the law of the return.
Hmm? Where does it say citizen of the world - can't find it aywhere. |
Contrarian, people who say they are citizens of the world mean figuratively that they are universal people rather than ardent nationalists or jingoists. The ancient Greek philosopher, Diogenes, said to Alexander Megalos (The Great) that he was a citizen of the Cosmos. You are a Canadian, that is true, but, in you, you probably some blood from various ethnicities. I do believe in defending the national interests of your country, but we, in this global world, must also think of other countries.
I believe a Canadian said "Think globally, act locally".
Back to George Bush, I think his administration needs to be investigated, people need to be place on oath. It seems clear in the minds of many that the government misled the public and even legislators from both parties and even bullied them to support a war. That is extremely serious.
Much treasure and blood was spilled for a war. I think it is worth to get the evidence of possible wrong doing. Now, if there were constitutional violations as Feingold claims there are connected with the wire-tapping, then someone could say there are grounds, but most of Congress doesn't think so and people are often willing to reduce their liberties in time of war, so even if it were technical grounds for impeachment that atmosphere is not there for it when it comes to the wire-taps. Anyway, people got what they voted for, unless you believe Ohio was rigged. That can't be proved either. There is nothing that can be proved. People only have suspicions. America is more divided than it has been in a long time and impeaching him won't heal the rift. America needs change, to move on, damage control etc.. |
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