Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Cerriowen]

I generally consider myself fairly dog-savvy, and I�ve never found a problem I couldn�t fix with a dog� til now.

I have 2... problems, not dogs.

I really love my dog, but he�s driving me completely nuts. I don�t know what to do with him.

OK first and foremost� my dog pees. Every time he gets excited, nervous, anxious, happy� etc� he just starts squirting everywhere. When he was very small I assumed it was something he couldn�t control. I tried several different tactics� The most effective one was ignoring him til he calmed down and then touching him. That way he didn�t pee as much, but he still peed. Well, it�s harder to think of it as an �accident� now that he�s lifting his leg before he starts peeing. It�s not just a couple of squirts anymore, if I ignore it, he�ll completely unload on the floor. So I tried scolding him and taking him in to his toilet area. He is 9 months old, and he�s getting WORSE instead of better. I�ve taken him to 3 different vets and they have no idea what to do with him. They suggested putting him down and getting a new dog.

So my second problem is that he barks. Not at strangers, only people he knows. When someone he doesn�t know comes in to the house, he�s perfectly quiet and hides under the bed. When *I* come home he goes in to an aggressive barking frenzy, complete with hackles and snarling. I know he�s not going to bite me, it�s just for show, but it�s becoming a real problem. He carries on for about 5 minutes, barking REALLY loud. I live in an apartment building� as does everyone in Seoul. My neighbors are complaining. I tried getting him a �no-bark� collar, which sprays air in his face when he barks. That just made him start peeing while barking. Every time it sprayed him, he peed, but he kept on barking.

I mop my entire floor every day, and I�m constantly �spot� wiping. Even with this, my apartment is starting to smell like a urinal. If I don�t fix the barking problem, my land-lord is going to evict me. I could find a new job, of course, but no matter where I go in Seoul, barking will be a big problem.

I love my little guy, and I want to keep him. I have no clue how to fix these things. HELP!

[SuperFly]

Cerri, I'm no dogoligist. The peeing thing might never be cured. I had two Aussies that barked (whenever I wasn't home) at the drop of a hat and a neighbor that was into calling the cops every time he heard them barking. I bought two electronic shock collars. People will tell you it's inhumane, but it works. These collars aren't cheap, they run close to 100 bucks. After about 2 months on the collars, we left the dogs at home for about two hours (with access to the yard) - no collars. We sent in a scout (a co-worker that had never met the dogs) - he milled around the carport for a few minutes without knocking on the door...no barking....he walked around the side of the yard and block wall fence...not a peep. He heard them sniffing and walking around following him along the length of the wall.

[Cerriowen]

Thanks for the advice. I'm not terribly opposed to the bark collar thing. I don't want to hurt him, of course... I'm mostly thinking it will make the peeing WORSE though... and that's my biggest problem.

[Ryst Helmut]

[thebomb]

Not my words, it's a quote from a site, but might prove helpul. hopefully.

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Dogs are instinctively programmed to accept the authority of creatures (animal and human) that they consider to be superior to them. They seek the approval of their superiors and are eager to please them. Many dog owners prefer a dog who is submissive to people and eager to please, and selective breeding has produced many domestic dogs with this characteristic.

Some dogs are more submissive than others. Very submissive dogs, shy dogs that lack self-confidence and often young pups will urinate when in the presence of more dominant dogs and humans. It's their instinctive way of telling the superior "You are my Supreme Master. Your wish is my command. Please don't hurt me!"

Puppies usually outgrow this behavior as they mature. Dogs who are naturally shy, insecure, extremely submissive, or who have been abused may continue to exhibit submission in this way even as adults. It is generally an involuntary, subconscious reflex. The dog isn't deliberately trying to do it. As a matter of fact, he may not even be aware that he's doing it at the time!

Many dog owners mistakenly believe that this type of urination is a housetraining problem, and try to correct it with discipline. To their dismay and frustration, rather than improving, the dog's problem gets worse! Because the message he's sending is misunderstood by the owner, the dog is caught in a vicious cycle - his instincts tell him to urinate to please his superior by showing submission. But when he does, he is punished. He then tries harder to please by urinating even more. This results in more punishment, and still more urination. After a time, the dog may become so confused and insecure that he urinates at the mere sight of a human being or another dog.

If discipline won't solve the problem, what will? Your task is to take the excitement and stress out of the periods that previously triggered submissive urination. Get cooperation from all members of the family. When you first get home, you can anticipate that the dog will get excited and urinate so you need to minimize the excitement. Instead of an enthusiastic greeting to your dog, quietly walk in the door and go about your business. Let him outside to pee as usual, but without any fanfare. If you talk to him at all, just say "Hi Rover" in a calm, casual tone of voice. Don't make eye contact with him or pet him. After he settles down, very gently crouch down to his level presenting to him sideways (this makes you very non-threatening), then calmly and quietly praise him and tell him he's good. Be sure to tell your family and visitors to do the same.

Do everything you can to boost your dog's confidence. As he becomes more confident, he may feel less of a need to display extreme submissive behavior:


Positive reinforcement obedience training does wonders for a dog's confidence! An untrained dog is doesn't know how to communicate with humans or how to behave, but the trained dog understands what's expected of him, and the words you say to him. He's confident because he has the tools with which to please his superiors.

Socialization at training classes, dog daycare, at the park, or just going with you on errands and to visit friends can do wonders for your dog's confidence. Have guests over who are willing to help out with this problem.

Agility training is another wonderfully fun way to boost your dog's confidence using physical obstacles and mental stimulation as well as new human words to understand and obey.

Incorporate basic obedience (Sit, Stay, Fetch, Come, etc.) into your daily life and when your dog obeys, he gains confidence through your praise. Just don't overdo the praise (this can result in a puddle!). A simple "Good boy" and gentle pat is enough.

Minimize the occasions your dog makes you want to scold him; think about what your dog does that causes you to scold him. For example, does he get into the trash, steal your children's toys or chew on your sneakers? By simply putting a lid on the trash can or putting it into a closet and requiring your family to pick up after themselves, these situations can be eliminated. The easier you make it for your dog to do what you want, the quicker he'll learn and his confidence will grown. On the other hand, discipline, scolding and physical punishment will simply reduce his confidence and worsen your submissive urination problem.

Dogs, especially shy or submissive ones, are very sensitive to body language and tone of voice. Bending over a dog is a "dominant" posture that may provoke an accident. Instead, get down to your dog's level by crouching or kneeling, preferably at his side rather than head-on.

These dogs are often intimidated by direct eye contact as well. Look at your dog's face without looking directly into his eyes, and only for very short periods.

If you are expecting guests, take your dog for a walk and get his bladder emptied ahead of time, and restrict water consumption for an hour before your guests are to arrive.

When speaking to your dog, use a calm, confident, moderate tone of voice. Avoid very high or low extremes in pitch. Don't "coochy-coo" or babytalk to your dog either. These tones can create excitement that results in submissive urination.
Don't scold or punish your dog for urinating submissively. It will only make things worse. He can't be held responsible for something he doesn't understand or even know he's doing. Instead, use these methods to get to the root of the matter: His basic insecurity and lack of confidence. When he's made progress in these areas, submissive urination often disappears on its own. How long will it take? Every dog is different and it's impossible to say for sure. With most dogs, following our directions will show a noticeable difference within a short time. Solving the problem altogether depends on your hard work, patience, consistency and willingness to stick with it. Good luck!

[Bibbitybop]

My friend in the US had a dog that barked, so she bought a collar that sprayed citronella from it toward the dog's face. It was humane and fixed the barking problem.

I don't know about the peeing. The shock collar might work if you are there to regulate when it shocks (when the dog pees inside).

[jlaskie]

vets suggested putting your dog down for THAT? these are normal dog problems.

for the peeing...it actually sounds like you have two problems: a) excitement/submissive urination, and 2) poor potty training.

if he pees when he's excited, try to identify what it is that's exciting him...and repeatedly expose him to it. ie, if he gets excited and pees when he sees you get home, ignore him when you walk in the door. leave, come back, ignore. leave, come back, ignore. eventually he should get bored, and will no longer pee when he's excited to see you. same can be used with other things that excite him.

he's still a pup at 9 months, but at this point, it might have developed into submissive urination. basically he's insecure, and is constantly "apologizing." if that's the case, you should probably try your best to ignore the "submissive urination." you should be able to tell the difference between your dog being excited, when he's being apologetic, and when he's popping a squat cuz he has to go. if you don't ignore him when he does this, and reassure him instead, he might think you're praising him. if you reprimand him, he might further feel the need to "apologize." instead, try to find ways to boost his confidence. one of the posts above gave good advice. obedience training and showing him other ways to show respect can do great things.

then there's the housebreaking. if you haven't done this successfully yet, i would suggest isolating him to one area of your apartment. get a small indoor pen if you can. dogs will want to pee after they wake up, after they eat, and after they play. doesn't matter if they haven't had liquids in a bit. it's very important that you keep a close eye on him at all times. i'm assuming you know what his squat looks like...so when he starts sniffing around, take him outside or to his area...or do it pre-emptively at the above times. and of course give an abundance of praise when he does right. it won't happen over night, of course, but if you're consistent, even the dumbest dog will catch on.

aaaand the barking. my dog had this problem, too. i found a good tactic was getting a cup of cold water, and telling him calmly (yelling only got him more excited) but firmly, "quiet." if he didn't listen, he got doused in the face with cold water. hold him down if you have to. had to be done repeatedly at first, then it only took me showing him a cup of water while saying "quiet," and now he listens to "quiet" most of time. if he's so riled up and spastic that he can't sit still and listen, i just remind him with another splash of cold water, and it's fine.


good luck...

[T-dot]

1) what kind of dog do you have? depending on the dog; at 9 months, he or she could still be in her puppy phase.

2) peeing or I like to call it excited peeing.

- my dog had it, but she no longer does it anymore. she used to pee whenever she was in contact with friendly people. She starts wagging the tail and then... oops there it flowed on the spot. So, I tried to take her out and get her used to all the people. After a while the pee quantity lessened till she eventually didnt do it anymore.

3) barking.

- sounds like your dog just doesnt know how to express her/himself. He/she seems to express his/her excitement through peeing or barking. (mine did the peeing, a little barking, but mostly playful biting.)


Im guessing you have a bigger breed of dog? If so, your dog will grow out of it. Mine did.

[Julius]

Keep cats, not dogs- is my best advice!

Dogs are outdoors animals! My dog was never allowed in the house-he had a big yard to stay in. And we trained him while he was a small pup (quick smack for any bad behaviour) so he never gave any problems when fully grown.

Cats on the other hand..easier to keep indoors- especially in a place like Korea.

[Cerriowen]

Please note...

I have tried all of the typical solutions for fixing this problem. I tried "appathy", where I let him calm down before I touch him. I get home and wait until he's stopped zipping around in circles and whining. I don't look at him and casually say "Hi Baekho", and he starts pissing everywhere.

I tried "crate" training. He'll pee in his crate. He'll pee on himself. He'll pee and lay down in it. I've never heard of this in a dog. There is nothing physically wrong with him. I've taken him to vets, and there's no reason why he should be peeing in his "area". I'm not leaving him in there for long periods of time. He has no bladdar infection. He pees when he sees me... even if I'm pretending he doesn't exist. I get home... he pees. It doesn't matter what room I'm in, and what room he's in... he starts leaking all over the floor.

[oneofthesarahs]

Actually, you might not be walking your dog enough. Dogs can start up with all sorts of disciplinary issues if they are not walked often enough.

It's not necessarily the frequency of walks that is important - it's the quality. A walk is not a trip outside to go potty - a walk is a serious traveling experience for a dog, no matter what the size. Chihuahuas need to receive daily, high-quality walks just as much as Great Danes do. Traveling in a group from place to place is essential to a dog's good mental health. Most behavioral problems in dogs can be solved by giving them long, rambling walks every day. You really need to be willing to commit at least 30 - 45 minutes per day of solid, nonstop walking.

[PeterDragon]

The peeing sounds psychological, but you never know. My dad had a dog with a similar problem, and it turned out that, while the dog didn't have a bladder infection, his bladder was just weak enough that he peed out of a sense of learned helplessness--- he was never able to "hold it" for any real length of time, so he stopped trying to hold it at all. I think my dad got some sort of medication that helped a little, and also walked the dog a lot more. Simply for damage control, you may need to confine the dog to a limited space in your apartment that's relatively easy to wash and carpet free. There are also special cleaners that eradicate the smell of your dog's previous mistakes much more thoroughly--- if a dog smells traces of urine in a spot, he may instinctively want to pee there--- or anywhere near there--- again. Ask a veterinarian about it. In a pinch, Ammonia cleaner can be used to eradicate all traces of the smell, but of course ammonia has a horrid odor all its own.

[Okibum]

[Ryst Helmut]

[Bramble]