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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| twg wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
| SO WHAT? They do this same crap with Bonds and OJ as well. It's like, "It's a Black guy, let's follow how many of his "kind" like him or agree with him." What's the journalistic value of that? |
I think the problem is the black folks treating every black celebrity that goes to jail like they're Nelson Mandella while their neighbors get sent up for 10 years for having a doob in their glove compartment and them not saying much of anything about it.
I mean, seriously... supporting Michael Jackson and R. Kelly? |
Not every black person supports these guys like Nelson Mandela.
That's like saying that every pro-life person supports this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph
Or that every polygamist sides with this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs
Or hell, why not claim that every white person supports this guy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush
It's just a cheap easy story to toss up on a newspaper or online site. It makes a whole lot of nothing and is a lazy journalistic effort bordering on fluff.... |
The phenomenon is real enough for The Boondocks to criticize it. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmmm....well, most of the evidence certainly points to Vick him being guilty. There is a good chance that he his, but this at this moment, he is innocent until PROVEN guilty. Let the court decide.
I think one reason that this has stired up so much hubbub is that he, along with all of the other professional athletes, are role models to young people. Make any cultural/racial excuse you want, but at the end of the day.........there is no excuse.
Here are two questions.
1. Why is it that the majority of professional sport athletes who are in trouble are black Americans? I saw an ariticle by Sports Illustrated on this, and 15 out of the 18 players (NFL players, that is) were black Americans. Why is that? Is it racial profiling, or is it simply numbers?
You can take the thug out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the thug. Just like, you can take the trash out of the trailer park, but you can't take trailer park out of the trash.........works both ways, people. AND, I feel as an American, these subjects should not be taboo. They should be discussed, and not seen as insecure topics.
I mean, really..........what the heck is going on with our black American athletes? And, if the same number of problems exits amongst the white/hispanic/Asian (speaking of, that new Chinese NBA player who is throwing a fit because the Bucks drafted him can phuck off........)
being swept under the carpet?
2. Why the hell would anyone welcome Paris Hilton back as a "hero"? I don't know.
dmbfan |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Atavistic wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
| Atavistic wrote: |
| One kid once called me a "white honky wh)re b1tch." |
DAMN  There is no way on Earth I'd ever say that in school....EVER |
Yeah, a fifth grader.
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| However, his father came to school and beat him outside of my classroom door. |
And that would be the reason why....
Kids with no manners and no training...sigh  |
I was in a trailer at the time. The other kids looked at me and said, "Ms. Atavistic, he's really hitting him."
I just closed the door and let him spend a long time in the bathroom after his father left. |
like PUNCHING and kicking the kid? and you stood for that? theres a fine line between discplining a kid and kicking the shit out of him.
Also last I knew, atleast in the US, teachers are required by law to report any suspected abuse behavior.
Discipline is one thing, but no one, especially teachers should ever tolerate child abuse. the line between physical displine and physical abuse is clear, and when its crossed someone should do something. |
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MANDRL
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
1. Why is it that the majority of professional sport athletes who are in trouble are black Americans? I saw an ariticle by Sports Illustrated on this, and 15 out of the 18 players (NFL players, that is) were black Americans. Why is that? Is it racial profiling, or is it simply numbers?
You can take the thug out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the thug. Just like, you can take the trash out of the trailer park, but you can't take trailer park out of the trash.........works both ways, people. AND, I feel as an American, these subjects should not be taboo. They should be discussed, and not seen as insecure topics.
I mean, really..........what the heck is going on with our black American athletes? And, if the same number of problems exits amongst the white/hispanic/Asian (speaking of, that new Chinese NBA player who is throwing a fit because the Bucks drafted him can phuck off........)
being swept under the carpet?
dmbfan |
I would contend the reason being black athletes make up about 65% of NFL rosters. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League , http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,680195652,00.html) The NFL has almost 1,700 players and with the 24 hour media, that is a pretty big microscope to be in as a professional football player.
I also believe the whole "you can take the thug out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the thug, and, you can take the trash out of the trailer park, but you can't take trailer park out of the trash". Given a lot of these guys come from pretty hard backgrounds, some of them just can't shake the lifestyle they grew up in. Being able to handle celebrity status and lots of money creates problems for those who don't have the best foundation. I don't think it is a white or black thing, I think its a 'how you were raised' thing.
If you compare the microscope NFL players are under and the majority of off the field problems being with black guys, take a look at Hollywood. Hollywood is another elite, rich club much like the NFL with few members. However, turn on your television or go to the movies and do you see 65% black actors? No. Now look at the people who get in trouble in Hollywood, mostly the white actors.
I guess I just see it as a numbers game. Small pool of players to examine, mostly being black players, so most of the problems are associated with the black players. White dudes get int trouble too, there just aren't enough in the league to have the opportunity to get into the same amount of trouble. If that makes sense. I don't know, thats just my two cents. I am usually just a blind fan trying to believe most people are good natured at heart. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| MANDRL wrote: |
| dmbfan wrote: |
1. Why is it that the majority of professional sport athletes who are in trouble are black Americans? I saw an ariticle by Sports Illustrated on this, and 15 out of the 18 players (NFL players, that is) were black Americans. Why is that? Is it racial profiling, or is it simply numbers?
You can take the thug out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the thug. Just like, you can take the trash out of the trailer park, but you can't take trailer park out of the trash.........works both ways, people. AND, I feel as an American, these subjects should not be taboo. They should be discussed, and not seen as insecure topics.
I mean, really..........what the heck is going on with our black American athletes? And, if the same number of problems exits amongst the white/hispanic/Asian (speaking of, that new Chinese NBA player who is throwing a fit because the Bucks drafted him can phuck off........)
being swept under the carpet?
dmbfan |
I would contend the reason being black athletes make up about 65% of NFL rosters. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League , http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,680195652,00.html) The NFL has almost 1,700 players and with the 24 hour media, that is a pretty big microscope to be in as a professional football player.
I also believe the whole "you can take the thug out of the hood, but you can't take the hood out of the thug, and, you can take the trash out of the trailer park, but you can't take trailer park out of the trash". Given a lot of these guys come from pretty hard backgrounds, some of them just can't shake the lifestyle they grew up in. Being able to handle celebrity status and lots of money creates problems for those who don't have the best foundation. I don't think it is a white or black thing, I think its a 'how you were raised' thing.
If you compare the microscope NFL players are under and the majority of off the field problems being with black guys, take a look at Hollywood. Hollywood is another elite, rich club much like the NFL with few members. However, turn on your television or go to the movies and do you see 65% black actors? No. Now look at the people who get in trouble in Hollywood, mostly the white actors.
I guess I just see it as a numbers game. Small pool of players to examine, mostly being black players, so most of the problems are associated with the black players. White dudes get int trouble too, there just aren't enough in the league to have the opportunity to get into the same amount of trouble. If that makes sense. I don't know, thats just my two cents. I am usually just a blind fan trying to believe most people are good natured at heart. |
Despite the similar phenomenon of lousy behavior between hollywood and NFL players which group's behavior gets a racial label on it? And no one thinks that's a bit odd? I'm just waiting for the lovely Black and White rationale for this....
As far as the Boondocks, yeah they did. It's also a comedy show poking fun at stereotypes. Last time I check stereotypes have some truth in it but it doesn't make it a valid scientific point to be raised at someone's convenience. I mean seriously...The Boondocks?? I could imagine how that bit of info would be tossed into a conversation. Why not toss in The Jerry Springer show about how crazy White people are or the NHL about how violent Whites are (Remember the stories about NHL players getting arrested, cheap shots, gambling blah blah blah...Yes, it's dated but who here would raise the hue and cry about how bad Whites are based on those Hockey players?) |
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MANDRL
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
Despite the similar phenomenon of lousy behavior between hollywood and NFL players which group's behavior gets a racial label on it? And no one thinks that's a bit odd? I'm just waiting for the lovely Black and White rationale for this....
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I totally agree. Black athletes have it 10 x worse in public perception and persecution compared to white Hollywood actors, in my opinion. White actors are repeatedly forgiven, see Robert Downey Jr. Isiah Washington blows up once and adios! Tom Brady has a kid out of wedlock, no big deal. Matt Leinart same thing, mother reports he is not around for the baby, buried on the back page. Funny how the media hasn't ran with those stories.
However, I don't see the Vick thing as falling under the media bias of black/white sports coverage. The police went to serve his cousin a warrant for drugs and holy Barney Five, they uncovered a massive dog fighting ring. Guy is indicted on Federal felony charges, is the face of a franchise, one of the major marketed guys in the NFL -- not a black/white thing. I think if it was a white player with the same star power as Vick, that player would be covered in the media the same way. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| MANDRL wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
Despite the similar phenomenon of lousy behavior between hollywood and NFL players which group's behavior gets a racial label on it? And no one thinks that's a bit odd? I'm just waiting for the lovely Black and White rationale for this....
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I totally agree. Black athletes have it 10 x worse in public perception and persecution compared to white Hollywood actors, in my opinion. White actors are repeatedly forgiven, see Robert Downey Jr. Isiah Washington blows up once and adios! Tom Brady has a kid out of wedlock, no big deal. Matt Leinart same thing, mother reports he is not around for the baby, buried on the back page. Funny how the media hasn't ran with those stories.
However, I don't see the Vick thing as falling under the media bias of black/white sports coverage. The police went to serve his cousin a warrant for drugs and holy Barney Five, they uncovered a massive dog fighting ring. Guy is indicted on Federal felony charges, is the face of a franchise, one of the major marketed guys in the NFL -- not a black/white thing. I think if it was a white player with the same star power as Vick, that player would be covered in the media the same way. |
Oh I agree, this whole Vick fiasco is certainly news. I just think that counting how many Black "supporters" he has isn't news. I mean you could manipulate that "data" to mean that Black people don't care about animals (Assuming that all the PETA people are White) or that Black people care more about celebrities than White people (which is questionable considering if you look at the crush of people standing around looking for autographs at media events, I would probably change my tune quickly). I just don't see why every time this kind of crap happens they have to count the supporters by race.
Oh...and as far as the comment about how you can't take the ghetto out of the thug or whatever...chew on this...
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| One NFL Players Association representative recently told me that only three percent of the league (or 60 out of 1,920 players) has had any off-the-field trouble within the past 12 months and that nobody is talking the good other players are doing. What that argument fails to address is that it is usually a small percentage of players who are creating the trouble. But the unwillingness of people to proactively address what those actions could mean to the majority of players that ultimately leads to more concerns. |
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jeffri_chadiha/04/06/image/index.html
It's not broken down by race but even assuming all 60 players were Black, they represent only a small fraction of the good, hardworking, law abiding players out there.....
65 percent of 1920 = 1248 players
3 percent of 1248 (to account for only Black players) =approximately 37 players....Yup...that's representative of all players 
Disclaimer=I am terrible at math, so I could have done this completely wrong but hopefully you get the general idea.... |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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In my opinion, black people are on one in terms of the protest (I am not talking about black people in general) because there is a certain mindset found amongst many African Americans, and I can attest to that, because I taught so many African Americans and saw first-hand how things contrasted with their Caucasian counterparts. African Americans have been suppressed heavily by Caucasians until the 1960s. That is not a very long time ago. It has bred a certain defensiveness including using the racial card just like some Jewish people will throw the anti-Semitic card at gentiles. As far as PETA and what have you, that would be more associated with Caucasian Christians and Jews from the Left, one would assume. African Americans have more pressing matters to deal with in terms of their community not that dogs are not important and this man hasn't been proven guilty. However, if he is guilty then he "despicable".
I don't think the defensiveness should go too far and assume many against a certain black star like OJ Simpson should be told to back off.
Anyway, this country has serious problems and this looks like a dumb circus...I am sure there are people in America with a decent education and a sound mind who think the protesters don't have their priorities straight with the serious problems the country is facing.. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Anyway, this country has serious problems and this looks like a dumb circus...I am sure there are people in America with a decent education and a sound mind who think the protesters don't have their priorities straight with the serious problems the country is facing.. |
Media has become nothing more than a dumb circus.
Hilton, Ritchie, Lohan and Spears...Famous people who get way too much attention for no real reason and are paraded on TV and not just on E! channel or Entertainment tonight....
The dumbing down of America continues.... |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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I was in a trailer at the time. The other kids looked at me and said, "Ms. Atavistic, he's really hitting him."
I just closed the door and let him spend a long time in the bathroom after his father left. |
like PUNCHING and kicking the kid? and you stood for that? theres a fine line between discplining a kid and kicking the *beep* out of him.
Also last I knew, atleast in the US, teachers are required by law to report any suspected abuse behavior. |
Like smacking him on the ass.
And his family was already well known by the school psychologist and I did report it. I was also told that it was best WE stay OUT OF THE WAY and simply report things than try and stop anything.
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Discipline is one thing, but no one, especially teachers should ever tolerate child abuse. the line between physical displine and physical abuse is clear, and when its crossed someone should do something. |
To me that wasn't physical abuse, but I did report it just to cover my ass. For the record, every year I put in soc work referrals for at least 10 children. Most of them never amounted to anything, not because there wasn't abuse but because it's so important to keep kiddy with mommy. So go take your high and mighty moral attitude elsewhere. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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While not as a teacher, I worked for the Canadian government with Indian kids who had been sexually abused. I worked the job for several years, while in uni. Atavistic, it is the same in Canada. At one point, for a whole summer, my only task (for an 8 hour day, at 20$/hr) was to pick up an Indian woman in the morning, drive her for 10 min to a cafe where she worked. I stayed there (on the gov's dollar, drinking chocolate milk and eating waffles over a National Post) until her shift was over, or she got sent home (usually about 4 hours) and then drove her home. We did this to keep mommy and kid together. I could go on and on and on about how weak-kneed "family first" policies *beep* up countless lives of innocent kids.
Who is Mike Vick? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Anyway, this country has serious problems and this looks like a dumb circus...I am sure there are people in America with a decent education and a sound mind who think the protesters don't have their priorities straight with the serious problems the country is facing.. |
Media has become nothing more than a dumb circus.
Hilton, Ritchie, Lohan and Spears...Famous people who get way too much attention for no real reason and are paraded on TV and not just on E! channel or Entertainment tonight....
The dumbing down of America continues.... |
How about some real stories in the news like what is going on in Zimbabwe, Korea, and maybe even Canada. The whole world isn't just 40% Hollywood, 40% American Government, and 20% comedy shows.
That's what TV seems to be about these days. That's why I hardly ever turn on the TV. It seems like the powers that be just want consumers, not a democracy. Vick is an NFL player. Big deal. Do you see European countries going on and on about how Zidane head-butted an Italian player. They talked about it for a couple of days, but it wasn't a big circus. Anyway, at least Zidane has class. He lost control after someone insulted his mother and grabbed his t-shirt aggressively and the referee wasn't paying attention. I thought that was more of a story, but not be heard about every friggin' day.
There were no protestors about the head-butting. The situation isn't better in really much better in Canada. The CBC doesn't do this Paris Hilton stuff to death. I really don't care about Lohan or Hilton.
I don't mind seeing Angelina Jolie at least it gives you exposure to places like Tibet, international organizations she is working with etc... and the adoption of a foreign child. That is worthy of the news somewhat. |
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darkhorse_NZ
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| is it me? or is screaming "murder","torture" and "neutering" for dogfighting an overreaction? |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Ron Mexico has got herpes.
Living with genital herpes can be a hassle. But only if you let it. - Valtrex Slogan
If Ron Mexico aka Mike Vick needs to kill dogs to live a normal life with Genital Herpes.
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| the NHL about how violent Whites are |
...
That's not true? |
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