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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| When you say 'the American government' you mean the American ambassador to Iraq, right? |
Rather than attack your character with meaningless lines of crap (which some people do..........not you), I would ask you to give some details about this...if you would be so kind.
dmbfan |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
| So your basis for rejecting these videos is... |
Generally, as with most of the far left's discourse on American Intelligence and the Cold War, I object as follows:
(a) rapid-fire, allegation-driven, U.S.-centric, innuendo-filled discourse rather than a carefully-thought-out weighing of the facts while entirely dismissing other-than-American historical agencies as irrelevant or some kind of sneaky diversion from "the truth";
(b) chronic, careless mishandling of the facts and evidence (i.e., fundamental and basic facts and evidence like Chalmers Johnson's accusing the CIA of attempting to overthrow "the democratically-elected govt in Nicaragua" in the 1980s; others' emotional and bitter allegations that CIA assassinated Salvador Allende; and one of your videos seems to believe that Oliver North worked for CIA); do these "critics" even have command of this material?
(c) putting America's opponents on a pedestal and apologizing for them and their methods;
(d) unfairly reducing and oversimplifying all American foreign-policy-making and its motives to monolithic, greedy, corrupt and murderous, private interests a la Marx and Lenin; and, to restate (a) in other words
(e) generally failing to talk professionally, analytically, or dispassionately in favor of value-laden, hyperbolic, manipulative, self-righteous, and overly-judgmentalist propagandist styles.
Many of these three- or four-minute, muckraking expos�s that you have referenced here accomplish little more than this.
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:47 pm; edited 7 times in total |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| dmbfan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| When you say 'the American government' you mean the American ambassador to Iraq, right? |
Rather than attack your character with meaningless lines of crap (which some people do..........not you), I would ask you to give some details about this...if you would be so kind.
dmbfan |
The best evidence of such an action would be an article by an apologist for April Glaspie's action. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| The best evidence of such an action would be an article by an apologist for April Glaspie's action. |
Just read it.....................................very interesting, indeed. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Generally, as with most of the far left's discourse on American Intelligence and the Cold War, I object as follows:
(a) rapid-fire, allegation-driven, U.S.-centric, innuendo-filled discourse rather than a carefully-thought-out weighing of the facts while entirely dismissing other-than-American historical agencies as irrelevant or some kind of sneaky diversion from "the truth";
(b) chronic, careless mishandling of the facts and evidence (i.e., fundamental and basic facts and evidence like Chalmers Johnson's accusing the CIA of attempting to overthrow "the democratically-elected govt in Nicaragua" in the 1980s; others' emotional and bitter allegations that CIA assassinated Salvador Allende; and one of your videos seems to believe that Oliver North worked for CIA); do these "critics" even have command of this material?
(c) putting America's opponents on a pedestal and apologizing for them and their methods;
(d) unfairly reducing and oversimplifying all American foreign-policy-making and its motives to monolithic, greedy, corrup, private interests a la Marx and Lenin; and, to restate (a) in other words
(e) generally failing to talk professionally, analytically, or dispassionately in favor of value-laden, hyperbolic, manipulative, self-righteous, and overly-judgmentalist propagandist styles.
Many of these three- or four-minute, muckraking expos�s that you have referenced here accomplish little more than this. |
Well played, Gopher.....well played.
dmbfan |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
| So your basis for rejecting these videos is... |
Generally, as with most of the far left's discourse on American Intelligence and the Cold War, I object as follows:
OK, at least that's better than someone's mispronunciation as a reason.
(a) rapid-fire, allegation-driven, U.S.-centric, innuendo-filled discourse rather than a carefully-thought-out weighing of the facts while entirely dismissing other-than-American historical agencies as irrelevant or some kind of sneaky diversion from "the truth";
A lot of these people worked for the CIA and are giving accounts of their experiences. Are you saying that the CIA wasn't involved in the drug trade?
(b) chronic, careless mishandling of the facts and evidence (i.e., fundamental and basic facts and evidence like Chalmers Johnson's accusing the CIA of attempting to overthrow "the democratically-elected govt in Nicaragua" in the 1980s; others' emotional and bitter allegations that CIA assassinated Salvador Allende; and one of your videos seems to believe that Oliver North worked for CIA); do these "critics" even have command of this material?
It talks about Ollie North being investaged and then about CIA involvement in covert drug-smuggling operations. I didn't see anything claiming that North worked for the CIA, perhaps you could enlighten me.
(c) putting America's opponents on a pedestal and apologizing for them and their methods;
Where was this part exactly? I must have missed it.
(d) unfairly reducing and oversimplifying all American foreign-policy-making and its motives to monolithic, greedy, corrupt and murderous, private interests a la Marx and Lenin; and, to restate (a) in other words
(e) generally failing to talk professionally, analytically, or dispassionately in favor of value-laden, hyperbolic, manipulative, self-righteous, and overly-judgmentalist propagandist styles.
So people talking about their experiences working for the CIA in various countries is "propagandist"?
Many of these three- or four-minute, muckraking expos�s that you have referenced here accomplish little more than this. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I answered your question and stated my objections. I will not waste time arguing with you about them. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Gopher was pretty clear in is points....................
In regards to the Oliver North situatoin, I was a little too young to remember what happened.
dmbfan |
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