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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| You know what they say about birds of a feather |
True, indeed. So, would it be fair for me to assume that you are a radical secular progressive (I did find an interesting article on what that "secular progressive" may mean)?
But, at any rate, seeing as how I have not shared my specific thoughts, opionion or feelings on these matters, you must be able to read minds then, eh?
Seriously, it is interesting when people have to resort to inults or catchy on liners in order to express thier disagreement on certain topics or issues........especially on tihs forum.
dmbfan |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Well, if you go back...way back...I have posted my own ideas |
And then after 5 minutes you ran out.
Poor you.
But you knew that, didn't you? |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:19 am Post subject: |
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And then after 5 minutes you ran out.
Poor you.
But you knew that, didn't you? |
Well, I'll give you one thing...............you are surely set on throwing insults, rather then have a discussion. Determination IS a good quality.
dmbfan |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Just to bring everyone up to speed, my wager with dmbfan was...
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But hey, if you can find me an example of the ACLU objecting to a Christmas event that wasn't government sponsored, I'll mail ten thousand won to a charity of your choosing. No need to reciprocate if I win.
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First case, Baldwin City, Kansa......a local public school had a traditio nof having an adult dressed as Santa, visit little elemetnary school children. Then, one year a Protestant clergyman played the role of old Saint Nick. The ACLU did not waste any time sending a letter to the school board DEMANDING that ALL visits from Santa immediatley stop because of the "religious" component.
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That invloved a protestant clergyman visiting a public school. Next case...
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Second case.........Benton, Louisiana....Tipton, Iowa...Cranston, Rhode Island..the ACLU filed or threatened to file lawsuits objecting to Christmas displays..........each time the ACLU has lost".
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Where were these Christmas displays? In government buildings, or in private homes and businesses? That's relevant to the discussion, but no details are given.
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Third case.........the group turned its attention to tyring to ban Christmas carols in public schools by threatening legal action against a school board in Elizabeth, Colorade. But the schools were ruled to permit traditional Christmas songs as long as the students had an "opt-out" option.
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Again, public schools. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| The point of this thread is that the GOP has squandered its time in power as far as the young people are concerned. Matters that are truly important to the youth have not been addressed, and the GOP's culture war has bit them in the ass. America's youth does not wish for members of Congress to diagnose sick people from Washington DC, nor do they particularly care about what happens to people who burn flags. They care about the health care crisis in this country, and their daily struggles with earning a stagnant income in an economy where the cost-of-living is rising. |
Funny thing is...........Congress has a lower approval rating then President Bush...........and the majority are Democrats. |
Yes, but if you were to ask people what they think about their own local congressmen, as opposed to congress in general, you would probably hear something a little different.
I remember one election, a mid-term I believe, where the GOP was pushing this idea that people are really mad at incumbent congressmen. The majority of incumbents were Dems, so of course the Republicans were trying to get some sort of bandwagon effect going. But on election night, Congress stayed in the Democratic hands.
People don't vote for a congress, they vote for a congressman, and if most people like they're local boy, then it doesn't really matter what they think of congress as a whole. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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So, why does the ACLU have a problem with an American tradition?
If the government does not have the right to try and prevent such celebrations, symbols, etc..........what gives the ACLU the righ to do so?
However, in the spirit of being objective, I did find this...............
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ACLU of MA Defends Students Punished for Distributing Candy Canes with Religious Messages (2/21/2003)
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
NORTHAMPTON, MA -- The American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts today asked a federal district court in Springfield to protect the First Amendment rights of high school students who were disciplined by school officials for distributing candy canes with religious messages just before Christmas.
"Students have a right to communicate ideas, religious or otherwise, to other students during their free time, before or after class, in the cafeteria, or elsewhere," said ACLU cooperating attorney Jeffrey Pyle, the main author of a friend-of-the-court brief submitted in the case.
As a high school senior in 1993, Pyle was the plaintiff in a landmark ACLU case that established the free speech rights of secondary school students in the state. Today's case is the first litigation in Massachusetts involving student free speech since Pyle v. South Hadley School Committee was decided in 1996.
In today's case, the court is reviewing whether officials at Westfield High School in Western Massachusetts violated the rights of a student-initiated Bible Club by punishing them for handing out handing out candy canes with religious messages attached. The basis for the discipline is a school rule that prohibits the distribution of all literature that is not related to the curriculum.
The students each received a one-day suspension, which school officials agreed not to enforce after they were contacted by the ACLU of Massachusetts. The students subsequently filed a lawsuit asking the court to order to school not to interfere further with their right to hand out religious information.
In legal papers filed today, the ACLU of Massachusetts argued that the school rule interferes with the free speech rights of public high school students in Massachusetts under both state law and the First Amendment, which protects their speech as long as it does not disrupt the educational process. This principle was firmly established in the Pyle case, which concerned various messages on t-shirts worn by then-high school student Jeffrey Pyle and his brother, Jonathan.
Pyle went on to graduate from Trinity College in 1997 and Boston College Law School in 2000. He is now a First Amendment attorney in the Media and Intellectual Property Group at the Boston law firm of Prince, Lobel, Glovsky & Tye. Pyle represents newspapers and magazines throughout New England, including student newspapers such as the Harvard Crimson.
The case is scheduled for a hearing this Tuesday, February 25 in federal district court in Springfield before Judge Frank Freedman. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Then, I find this......................www.stoptheaclu.com (rather biased, I admit)
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Top Ten Reasons To Stop The ACLU
by Bob @ 12:17 am. Filed under Church And State, 1st Amendment, Border Control/Homeland Security, Abortion, PETITIONS, War On Terror, Child Exploitation, Boyscouts, Communism, 2nd Amendment, Euthanasia, News, Christmas
Stop The ACLU was started on February 9th, 2004. We started with high hopes, and we realized we were facing a goliath. There were many reasons why we thought the ACLU needed to be countered, and they are numerous. We wanted to provide a way to inform the public of the ACLU�s agenda, as the MSM sugar coated it. We wanted to be a central database for people to gather, exchange ideas, and get actively involved in real ways of stopping them. It is a monumental task, exhausting, time consuming, and often frustrating. But it is a fight worth fighting.
We would be nothing without our supporters. To all of you, we appreciate the continued support. We have called you to action and you have answered. We raised $2,500.00 for an ad in the Washington Times, and I want to announce at this time that the check is in the mail as of Wednessday, Nov 8th. The ad should appear within the next two weeks. When it does, it will be scanned, and put up at Stop The ACLU for all to see. We will call you to action again, and again, and it is good to know that you will answer the call because you believe in this cause.
The ACLU have been laying low lately, but that is no reason to grow complacent. It is now that we should prepare to counter them. The Christmas season is around the corner, and the ACLU will be full force. Get involved in Operation Nativity.
There are many reasons to stop the ACLU. For this blogburst I decided to list my top ten list.
10. The ACLU was founded by Communist, with communist ideals, communist goals, and they continue to impose a Communist like agenda on America daily. The founder of the ACLU, Roger Baldwin stated clearly�
My chief aversion is the system of greed, private profit, privilege and violence which makes up the control of the world today, and which has brought it to the tragic crisis of unprecedented hunger and unemployment�Therefore, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself�I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal.�
9. The ACLU does not believe in the Second Amendment.
ACLU POLICY �The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court�s long-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment [as set forth in the 1939 case, U.S. v. Miller] that the individual�s right to bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms.�ACLU Policy #47
#8. Their outright hatred of the Boyscouts. They are currently doing everything in their power to hurt this organization. They attacked their free speech right to exclude gays, and are threatening schools, and fighting in court to get their charters shut down. The oppose the military supporting them, and will sue the pants off any school that attempts to charter them.
#7. The ACLU are pro-death. Not only is the ACLU Pro-abortion, it�s the ACLU�s top priority. It most definitely takes a backseat to free speech for the ACLU. As a matter of fact, the ACLU has fought against the free speech rights of those that oppose it. If its abortion or euthanasia, as long as its pro-death you can count on the ACLU to support it. The only exception to the ACLU�s pro-death stance, is if it is a convicted criminal; in this case they are against death.
#6. The ACLU advocate open borders. Not only have the ACLU opposed the Minute Men, a group who are simply exercizing their freedom of speech, protesting and stepping up where the government is failing, but they have helped illegals cross the border.
#5. The ACLU is anti-Christian. The list is endless on this one. Under the guise of �seperation of Church and State�, the ACLU have made a name for theirself on being rabidly anti-Christian. This is one area where they are most hypocritical. They oppose tax exemptions for all churches, but fight for them for Wiccans. They are against Christianity in school, but oddly remain silent as our children are taught to be Muslims. Whether its baby Jesus, ten commandments, or tiny crosses on county seals, the ACLU will be there to secularize America, and rewrite our history.
#4. The ACLU Opposes National Security. The ACLU have opposed almost every effort in the arena of national security. From the bird flu to bag searches, the ACLU have been against it. No matter what kind of search someone tries to do to protect people, the ACLU have proved they are against them across the board. Its kind of ironic that they don�t practice the principles they preach.
Take a walk into the NYCLU�s Manhattan headquarters - which it shares with other organizations - and you�ll find a sign warning visitors that all bags are subject to search.
#3. The ACLU Defend the enemy. They have a long history of this one. They defended the P.L.O. in 1985. They defended Quadafi in the 1980�s. And they continue today. They have told Gitmo detainees they have the right to remain silent, as in not talking to interrogators. One issue that really disturbs me is their refusal of funds from organizations such as the United Way that were concerned the money would be used to support terrorism.
In October of 2004, the ACLU turned down $1.15 million in funding from two of it�s most generous and loyal contributors, the Ford and Rockefeller foundations, saying new anti-terrorism restrictions demanded by the institutions make it unable to accept their funds.
�The Ford Foundation now bars recipients of its funds from engaging in any activity that �promotes violence, terrorism, bigotry, or the destruction of any state.�
The Rockefeller Foundation�s provisions state that recipients of its funds may not �directly or indirectly engage in, promote, or support other organizations or individuals who engage in or promote terrorist activity.�
#2. The ACLU supports child porn distribution and child molesters like NAMBLA.
As legislative counsel for the ACLU in 1985, Barry Lynn told the U.S. Attorney General�s Commission on Pornography (of which Focus on the Family President Dr. James C. Dobson was a member) that child pornography was protected by the First Amendment. While production of child porn could be prevented by law, he argued, its distribution could not be.
There is no doubt the The ACLU are perverting the Constitution.
#1. The ACLU fufills its agenda using my tax money. What more can I say on this one?
There are countless reasons the ACLU needs to be stopped. So don�t just stand by and complain, do something. Get involved. Here are some ways you can get involved to help us stop the ACLU.
Support and donate to organizations fighting them in Court. Here are the ones at the forefront. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Another one...........www.americanprotest.org
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Orange ACLU Protest
by Nedd Kareiva
Posted: 06/29/2007
This was my first visit to California in 36 years and when people told me it has changed since then, that was a monumental understatement. You don�t have to look hard to see the effects of the illegal invasion in the Golden State. I arrived about 9 AM Friday June 16th, 2007 at LAX to be picked up by my friend and faithful Coalition supporter, Jerry Paradise of Paradise Financial Group and Paradise Real Estate. If you have real estate needs and live in California, I urge you to contact him, as he will take good care of you. If you call, mention Stop the ACLU referred you.
Within 5-10 seconds after loading my baggage and pulling away from the airport curb, a California Highway Patrol cop (CHiP) pulled Jerry over and cited me for no seat belt as well as him for not having made me put one on. Given the fact I run another web site on this issue (though long outdated), I took great offense to this �violation�. However, what was even more offensive was that the cop cited international law for not buckling up. It would have been bad enough had he cited California law but when the officer claimed that this is the law of "the world," that was even more offensive than being pulled over for this stupid law and worse than that, a sign that California and perhaps all of America is moving towards a one world government.
Though I was agitated inside that my 4th and 9th Amendment rights were violated and wanted to ask the cop when California adopted international law for seat belt enforcement, Jerry politely urged me to keep quiet. It was good that I did as the cop issued only a verbal warning and let us go. Here was a good case, if it was on the ACLU�s radar, to defend me in the court since their mantra is their undying claim to defend the Bill of Rights. But the 4th and 9th Amendments are not on their screen, nor is the 2nd Amendment, the right to keep and bear arms. And most of all, the 1st Amendment is definitely off their radar since the ACLU believes religious folks should check their Judeo-Christian faith at the door of government offices and entities, whether it involves employment with a certain branch of government or doing business with one.
Finally we moved on from the airport and arrived in Orange a little over an hour early. Jerry couldn�t stay for the rally as he had a business commitment to keep but he firmly assured us of his support and will be working with us in the weeks to set up a Stop the ACLU satellite office in the state. We thank God for Jerry�s commitment to stop the ACLU in California. It was 11:30 AM when our Arizona state coordinator, Betty Merry, was there to greet me as she said she would. Betty was in L.A. to see her daughter who lives there and brought her homemade signs to the rally. This lady is one of our best and most faithful coordinators we have and I was proud to meet this fine woman who has a fierce passion to stop the ACLU and backs it with her actions.
Attendance was light until almost noontime when significant numbers of protesters began to show up. One of the first to be there was Jim Gilchrist, founder of the Minuteman Project. It was a pleasure meeting him and later in the rally, hearing him address the crowd. Without Mr. Gilchrist, the mass mobilization of Americans to fight pro-amnesty lawmakers and open borders lobbyists could possibly not have taken place as it has. To our surprise, David Hernandez, patriotic American and founder of Save the Seal, was able to attend after originally telling us he wouldn't be able to. Dave knows the ACLU rather well, having seen 3 out of 5 L.A. County supervisors bow to this Communist inspired organization to remove a tiny cross from the L.A. County seal. Mr. Hernandez will be running for mayor of Los Angeles in the next election; we urge folks to get behind him, as he will work hard to put the ACLU in its place.
It was also great to see Jesse Petrilla appear as well. Jesse is the founder of the United American Committee, an organization somewhat similar to ours but whose goal is to root out and rein in radical Islamic extremism in America. He is a true patriot and we fully support his efforts as he does ours. It was an honor getting a UAC flag from him. His web site has a picture of it if you wish to take a look. It is very sharp. About 12:30 PM, our emcee (staunch Stop the ACLU supporter and close friend Chelene from Save Our State) showed up with homeless advocate Ted Hayes and a fellow black brother to help lead in patriotic music, chants against the ACLU and overall support of entire rally.
The Orange police had granted a permit for rally organizers to block off the right lane on Chapman Ave to set up a small stage area with microphone, speakers, a podium and to place orange cones along that one block. They had told Barry Ames, who was primarily responsible for the legwork in getting the permit, that no permit was needed to hold the rally itself on the public sidewalk. That was the right call by the police as no permit is ever constitutionally needed to peacefully protest on a public sidewalk. We thank Barry for his hard work on this hot Friday to secure the permit and his work to set up and take down the equipment. He had to procure a U-Haul pick up to do it.
Two squad cars were stationed near the rally site but not close so as to draw attention. They were thanked for their efforts to keep the peace and one of them verbally expressed his appreciation. No doubt members of the Orange police have had their run-ins with the ACLU from time to time. There were several speakers at the rally, which included Jim, Jesse, David and yours truly, among others, including one attorney named Dave Klemm, who has been opposite the ACLU in court cases. The rally originally stemmed from an ACLU suit against the city of Lake Forest for passing and enforcing a city ordinance restricting loitering and harassment for work from day laborers hanging around business establishments in the city. And boy, did I see them when I was there, even on Saturday and Sunday.
The lawsuit is still in effect, despite the city dropping the ordinance. The ACLU stated that the laborers were on public property when police sought to remove them. Others dispute the ACLU�s claim, stating the day laborers (some suspected to be illegal aliens) were on private property and interfering with business owners� operations. Along with the loitering ordinance, California�s unrestricted illegal immigration was the other theme for the day with periodic mentions of the ACLU�s positions in their support of a godless and morally bankrupt America. I almost forgot � if you want to see pictures of the rally, you can see them in the Save Our State Forum. There are 10 pictures in all. I am in the 4th photo down the page with Ted to my immediate right (picture wise, not stage wise), the beautiful Chelene next to him and a great black brother (whose name escapes me) next to her, holding a makeshift license plate of what he thinks about the ACLU. Yours truly took some shots as well and will hopefully post them in the next few days.
Attorney Dave Klemm is with Chelene and Ted in the first photo. And while not pictured, Ted led us at one point in the Pledge of Allegiance, the Star Spangled Banner and God Bless America. The 7th photo down is the front of a shirt that one of our new suppliers recently created that I brought to the rally. Chelene wanted to do something for our cause and what she did was hold an auction on the shirt. She asked Jim (he�s in the 8th photo down), Ted, Jesse, both Dave and myself, along with several others, to briefly write and sign a patriotic message on the front of the shirt before holding the auction.
One rally supporter bid and paid $100 for the shirt, which he promptly gave to one of the ladies in attendance. He gave Chelene the money and in return she passed it on to me for the Coalition. What a blessing all these folks were. By the way, the back of the shirt (not visible) says (with a faded American flag in the background) �Take a Stand, Keep God in America, StoptheACLU.org, Get the Facts�. We are planning to make a modest change to the shirt to say �Keep God in America, Keep the ACLU out, StoptheACLU.org, Get the Facts� and we hope to make them available sometime in the next few weeks. They will be in white, light blue and pink and will see for probably no more than $11-$12 a shirt which is very reasonable, contrasted to other shirts online. We will post a note and distribute an alert when we are ready to proceed.
There was a small truck moving back and forth along Chapman Ave. with our message against the ACLU and in support of patriotism. There was some media coverage at the event but only the Orange County Register gave it any publicity. They currently have the story online and a short video, along with a brief slideshow. However, we do question the OC Register count of only about 50 folks showing up. There were, by my count, close to 100 there, with perhaps 90 being a reasonable number. The video contains a few comments from Hector Villagra of the ACLU of Orange County.
It�s interesting to hear and read what he said, however, he refused to meet with any of us, despite saying that he supports our right to protest what they are doing. This is, in my opinion, a disarming tactic the ACLU uses when confronting them. They want the public to believe, at least in some sense that they are on our side on free speech. But anyone with a reasonable knowledge of the ACLU and its positions proves that to not be the case. After the rally concluded at 3 PM and the equipment promptly removed, a group of 6 of us went across the street to an Italian restaurant for some good food. We stayed until about 4:45 PM when two of the ladies there (there were 3 guys, counting me and 3 gals) decided to head across the street up to the ACLU�s office in this office building. Much to no one�s surprise, the ladies came back and told us the ACLU�s door was locked and that Hector would not let them in. This proves what we continually say when we describe the ACLU�s agenda as often stealthy. They don�t want the public to know what they are doing behind closed doors but sooner or later, more and more details about this organization will come to light. We didn�t have too many problems with opposing factions. Initially a young lady from the office building was concerned about a few of our signs that were sitting on private property and approached the police but apparently they ignored her as they stayed their distance.
One car in the parking lot directly behind us had Mexican music playing but it was not obnoxious as to cause distraction. And one vehicle periodically paraded around with the Mexican flag outside its windows. But there was little commotion outside these. I won�t take up space to cover the rest of my weekend in California except to say I observed what the residents there are saying and telling me. And that is there is a serious problem with illegal aliens in California and all over America. We must secure the borders, put up a wall (as opposed to a fence) to cover the entire stretch of the southern border from California to Texas, deport the illegals and ensure that businesses do not hire them. There is no room for compromise. Passing the illegal immigration bill currently in the U.S. Senate would be a disaster and change our country forever. We must stop it, period.
I want Californians to know that more and more Americans are turning against the ACLU. That is not to deny, as the ACLU points out from time to time on its web site, that their membership is increasing. That may well be true. However, as more and more people learn what the ACLU stands for and how their lawyers and employees seek to undermine American sovereignty and drive us to third world status, more and more folks are rejecting the ACLU. I personally am a friend with someone who did so last year when he could not stomach the ACLU�s support for open borders. He cut up his card and sent it back to the ACLU. There are more out there. We have to locate them.
The ACLU may deny they support open orders but make no mistake, they do. When they seek to defend illegal aliens in an American court of law, that is a subtle admission of support for them. They say illegals shouldn�t come here illegally but if they do, they have rights under our Constitution. That does not sit well with most of us and I daresay our Founding Fathers would not agree. Asylum is one thing. Illegals coming in from south of the border are not seeking asylum. They are seeking to impose their way of life without being here legally. This is something we must mount sustained efforts to stop.
Stop The ACLU Coalition is tentatively planning a picket and rally in front of the offices of the ACLU of Southern California (not this one in Orange County) and we hope to have significantly greater numbers than what we had in Orange, though this was a good start. We need to show the ACLU that sizable majorities of Americans, even Californians, reject the ACLU�s agenda for America.
We are putting together an impressive team to hopefully open up in the coming months a satellite Stop the ACLU office in Southern California. Our friend Jerry, our pastor liaison Mike Sanderson and our new state coordinator for Southern California, Carol M. (last name temporarily withheld for certain security reasons), along with yours truly, will be putting things together that will hopefully put the fear of God in the ACLU. Make no mistake about it, folks, we're dead serious about going after the ACLU and their entourage (Americans �United�, People for the (Anti) American Way and the Freedom from Religion Foundation) and wresting our nation back from them.
Lots of organizations today talk a good talk against the ACLU and many of them take donations to help their lawyers fight the ACLU in court. We fully support these groups. However, the Coalition is taking it to the ACLU directly and this rally is a start. We will target other offices as well and are making plans for rallies outside the ACLU�s offices in Louisiana; Richmond, VA, Detroit and Indianapolis. We hope to do one in Northern California as well. Stay tuned for more details and if you haven�t signed up to receive our alerts, newsletters and how to get involved, just send an e-mail to us at StopTheAclu.org and say �sign me up� and/or �how can I help�? We will let you know what is going on and give you the opportunity to participate in some tangible way to curb the ACLU�s influence in America. We hope you'll join us.
Californians, don�t throw in the towel on your state, the ACLU, the illegal invasion and extreme leftism resulting from the infestation of ACLU termites and the liberal California legislature. As director of the Coalition, I hear and read the outrage almost every day that comes from good folks in your state and you want to take your state back. Stay the course. Fight back. And bring a friend or family member with you.
God bless America!
Nedd Kareiva has a degree in Biblical studies and is the head of Stop the ACLU Coalition.
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Dmbfan:
Amazing what gets sent to your inbox, eh? Got anything on Bonzai kitten?
Anyway, I don't see anything there about the ACLU opposing the private practice of religion. But I would like to comment on this...
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| They oppose tax exemptions for all churches, but fight for them for Wiccans. |
That probably is the case. And there is no contradiction there. You can believe that tax exemptions for religious groups are wrong, while also thinking that as long as such exemptions are available, they should be given out to everyone. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| Amazing what gets sent to your inbox, eh? Got anything on Bonzai kitten? |
No, nothing sent to my inbox. I just did some searching............while trying to be objective.
My point is, is that I can't support or agree with an organziation that was founded upon communist principles.
dmbfan |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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And most of all, the 1st Amendment is definitely off their radar since the ACLU believes religious folks should check their Judeo-Christian faith at the door of government offices and entities, whether it involves employment with a certain branch of government or doing business with one.
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The ACLU doesn't say that Christians can't worl for the government, they just don't want Christians, or anyone else, using the government to promote their religion. |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:53 am Post subject: |
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.............but, can you show me cases of the opposite view, where the ACLU is providing protection for non-christian practices.....in public?
I get you can.
No, I don't believe any religion, or roots of faith should be force fed to anyone. However, the U.S. was founded on Judeo-Christian principles (unless the conspiracy theorist want to jump in and bring up the Illuminait.........which, they CAN provide a good case for). this is one reason why the Unites States has stood by Isreal........and I hope we continue to do so.
My parents, grandparents and great grandparents (when they were alive) did not experience issues such as these. So, at what point in time has this started to change?
dmbfan |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:08 am Post subject: |
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"In December 2005, House Reolution 579 was introduced on the floor of the 109th Congress......it stated:
Resolution: Exrepssing the sense of the House of Representatives that the symbols and traditions of Christmas should be protected.
Whereas Christmas is a national holiday, celebrated on December 25; and Whereas the Framers intended that the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States would prhibit the establishment of religion, not prohibit any mention of religion or refernce to God in civic dialog: Now, therefore, be it Resolved, That the House of Representatives...
1. Recognizes the importance of the symbols and traditions of Christmas;
2. Stongly disapproves of attempts t ban references to Christmas; and
3. Expresses support for the use of these symbols and traditions".
By the way, the vote to apporve the Resolution to Protect Christmas Symbols and Traditions was 401 to 22, whith voting simply "present". All fo the dissenters were Democrats:
Gary Ackerman (NY)
Earl Blumenauer (OR)
Lois Capps (CA)
Emanuel Cleaver (MO)
Diana DeGette (CO).........no surprise there.
Jane Harman (CA)
Alcee Hastings (FL)
Michael Hnda (CA)
Barbara Lee (CA)
Gwen Moore (WI)
James Moran (VA)
donald Payne (NJ)
Bobby Rush (IL)
Janice Schakowksky (IL)
bobby Scott (VA)
Fortney Stark (CA)
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (FL)
Robert Wexler (FL)
Lynn Woosley (CA) |
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dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| The ACLU doesn't say that Christians can't worl for the government, they just don't want Christians, or anyone else, using the government to promote their religion. |
So, where was the ACLU when the newly elected muslim congressman used the koran to promote his faith?
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November 28, 2006
A first for America...The Koran replaces the Bible at swearing-in oath
What book will America base it's values on, the Bible or the Koran?
Please take a moment to read the following TownHall.com column by Dennis Prager, who is a Jew. After reading the column, take the suggest action at the bottom of this email. After you have read it, please forward it to your friends and family.
America, Not Keith Ellison, decides what book a congressman takes his oath on
By Dennis Prager - Tuesday, November 28, 2006
Keith Ellison, D-Minn., the first Muslim elected to the United States Congress, has announced that he will not take his oath of office on the Bible, but on the bible of Islam, the Koran.
He should not be allowed to do so -- not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American civilization.
First, it is an act of hubris that perfectly exemplifies multiculturalist activism -- my culture trumps America's culture. What Ellison and his Muslim and leftist supporters are saying is that it is of no consequence what America holds as its holiest book; all that matters is what any individual holds to be his holiest book.
Forgive me, but America should not give a hoot what Keith Ellison's favorite book is. Insofar as a member of Congress taking an oath to serve America and uphold its values is concerned, America is interested in only one book, the Bible. If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress. In your personal life, we will fight for your right to prefer any other book. We will even fight for your right to publish cartoons mocking our Bible. But, Mr. Ellison, America, not you, decides on what book its public servants take their oath.
Devotees of multiculturalism and political correctness who do not see how damaging to the fabric of American civilization it is to allow Ellison to choose his own book need only imagine a racist elected to Congress. Would they allow him to choose Hitler's "Mein Kampf," the Nazis' bible, for his oath? And if not, why not? On what grounds will those defending Ellison's right to choose his favorite book deny that same right to a racist who is elected to public office?
Of course, Ellison's defenders argue that Ellison is merely being honest; since he believes in the Koran and not in the Bible, he should be allowed, even encouraged, to put his hand on the book he believes in. But for all of American history, Jews elected to public office have taken their oath on the Bible, even though they do not believe in the New Testament, and the many secular elected officials have not believed in the Old Testament either. Yet those secular officials did not demand to take their oaths of office on, say, the collected works of Voltaire or on a volume of New York Times editorials, writings far more significant to some liberal members of Congress than the Bible. Nor has one Mormon official demanded to put his hand on the Book of Mormon. And it is hard to imagine a scientologist being allowed to take his oath of office on a copy of "Dianetics" by L. Ron Hubbard.
So why are we allowing Keith Ellison to do what no other member of Congress has ever done -- choose his own most revered book for his oath?
The answer is obvious -- Ellison is a Muslim. And whoever decides these matters, not to mention virtually every editorial page in America, is not going to offend a Muslim. In fact, many of these people argue it will be a good thing because Muslims around the world will see what an open society America is and how much Americans honor Muslims and the Koran.
This argument appeals to all those who believe that one of the greatest goals of America is to be loved by the world, and especially by Muslims because then fewer Muslims will hate us (and therefore fewer will bomb us).
But these naive people do not appreciate that America will not change the attitude of a single American-hating Muslim by allowing Ellison to substitute the Koran for the Bible. In fact, the opposite is more likely: Ellison's doing so will embolden Islamic extremists and make new ones, as Islamists, rightly or wrongly, see the first sign of the realization of their greatest goal -- the Islamicization of America.
When all elected officials take their oaths of office with their hands on the very same book, they all affirm that some unifying value system underlies American civilization. If Keith Ellison is allowed to change that, he will be doing more damage to the unity of America and to the value system that has formed this country than the terrorists of 9-11. It is hard to believe that this is the legacy most Muslim Americans want to bequeath to America. But if it is, it is not only Europe that is in trouble. (End Commentary) |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: |
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So, where was the ACLU when the newly elected muslim congressman used the koran to promote his faith?
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Once again: unless the ACLU tries to stop Christian politicians from swearing on the bible, there is no contradiction in them supporting Ellis' right to use the Koran.
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But, Mr. Ellison, America, not you, decides on what book its public servants take their oath.
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Is there a law saying that congressmen have to be sworn in on the bible? I don't think so. As such, "America" cannot be said to have decided anything about which books public servants should use.
dmbfan:
You really should find better sources for your information. There probably are good critiques of the ACLU out there, but these guys you're quoting sure as hell aren't the ones providing them. |
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