Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Kim Cummings]

I finally had an interview...with SMOE...after many scheduled phone interviews were postponed and/or cancelled. Before this interview, I was advised by the recruiter not to ask too many questions...see what they say, wait to actually see the contract to form questions... As it was, I had almost no info to go on and I got very little more from the interview. (however, I was ASKED quetions - the kinds of questions I'd expect in a "real" interview. The superintendant who intervervied me said she'd e-mail me the contract & said she'd be checking her email over the weekend & would answer any questions. I got a good feeling about the position, but it was for a very early start date...
This is what followed:
I got a call from the recruiter saying they were willing to wait another week (until mid-Aug) but when I got the contract by e-mail, it was VIA THE RECRUITER (not the superintendant) with a note stating that any questions/communication from this point on will be ONLY through the recruiting agency
- ALSO (apparently) by signing the copy of the contract, I'm accepting the position, but wouldn't sign the official contract until I get to Korea. Yes, AFTER I get to Korea, I negotiate the details... (!)
-I have a few issues with the contract, but will be discussing it with the recruiter later today. It doesn't seem to match the basic info I had been given previously (like hours), and there are definitely grey areas. (The one recently posted on this forum- "Hogwan running public school"- looks MUCH better to my inexperienced eye, even though posters pointed out things to be concerned about. )
-oh, yes: the recruiter also mentioned that, if I turn down a position like this, I probably wouldn't get another position with the ministry.

Any thoughts? Advice on how to approach this?

I'm anticipating some of the responses I'll get from this! The part about signing AFTER getting to Korea does seem unusual & I might sound incredibly naive to even ask about that... but I'm learning things don't always happen as one would expect them to! (People to go to Korea to job-hunt on their own, therefore signing a contract AFTER their arrival, but that is a different scenario and probably irrelevant to my situation.)

[KYC]

why dont u post the contract either here or in the contract thread for ppl to see? I dont know much since I'm a newbie myself but I signed a GEPIK contract through a recruiter. It was the recruiter that emailed me the contract. I didnt speak with the school personnel either. They initially wanted to interview me ( I wasnt really interested in them in the first place), however I was out of the country so I told them to wait a few weeks. I also couldnt start when they wanted me to. I thought they moved on to the next candidate. However, the recruiter informed me that they were willing to wait for me...and i got the job with no interview. I did interview with the recruiting agency when i first signed up with them..that was it.

And...SMOE..I thought all their positions were filled. I may be wrong. And yes it is weird to only sign the contract once you're in Korea. I had positions with epik & gepik and they wanted me to sign the contract and fed ex it to them along with my documents.

Ask the recruiter for the superintendent email addy..see if s/he gives that up. I dont know about SMOE but other public school positions are still hiring..

[Kim Cummings]

Perhaps I should do that!

After posting some comments/questions re contracts, recruiters and my current "dilemma" I am now wondering if the words "Kohsan English Centre" in my contract means the program/English Centre is contracted by a company. The contract says the employer is SEOUL NAMBU DISTRICT EDUCATION OFFICE.

There's only one mention of Kohsan in the entire contract, but that word was new to me. I'm still waiting to discuss all this with the recruiter, but in the meantime, I googled it and found there's a company based in South Korea by this name, but totally unrelated to education. (There was nothing I saw that linked it to schools in any way. )

The contract I have now (not signed) has what looks like a SMOE logo on it and it's very much like the "generic" SMOE contract I was given to look at (as an example) awhile back - BUT...my "actual class instruction hours shall not exceed forty (40) hours per week" (!) (but if they do, I'm apparently entitled to overtime; no $ amount given.) I'm a hard worker, but 40 hrs off the top seems like a lot to me, esp. since it sounds like there could be overtime - whether I want it or not.

Also: the salary of 2.5 seems reasonable, but since I have an Education degree, several univ. TESL courses & over 18 yrs of school teaching experience (overseas/ESL/various grade levels), I'm not sure this is as exceptional as the recruiter thinks it is. (It seems standard for a Category 3 teacher, and I think that's where I fit.) At any rate, $ is not as nearly as important to me as getting a reasonable position with reasonable hours. i.e. I think my hopes/ expectations are pretty "reasonable" ...Perhaps I'm wrong!

[icicle]

From what you have said it does not sound like an SMOE job to me ... But I know that there are people on this list who work for SMOE ... so they will be able to confirm that ...

I think what I would do is to send an email to the person who interviewed you ... and who said she was keen to answer any questions ... What you said about your interview sounds like what I would have expected from an SMOE interview .... She clearly said interested in answering questions ... and the fact that the recruiter has now said "all communication must be through me" actually makes me feel very suspicious of the recruiter ... Especially when 40 contact hours before overtime is included ... And you wouldn't actually be able to negotiate contact terms before arriving in the country ... It does sound to me like they are setting you up for you to end up working for a Hagwon rather than for a public school.

The signed contract is one thing which is submitted to immigration by the employer as part of the process of applying for the visa ... So I would expect you to sign a contract before this happens ...

As to pay I would actually say that 2.5 million actually sounds high to me for starting a public school job ... even for meeting the requirements for top level ranking ... But then I am not certain on the SMOE pay scales ... I work under a GEPIK contract and the normal maximum starting salary is 2.3 million ... Something to know in SMOE jobs is that from what I have heard on this board ... There is at least sometimes extra pay for working the Summer/Winter camps which would boost your actual salary level ...

There is no way I would sign a public school contract which had 40 contact hours before overtime ... My GEPIK contract is for 22 contact hours before overtime ... I think the most I have heard of in a public school is 25 hours before overtime.

If you are really interested in working for SMOE ... I would talk to them about what has happened ... and see what they say ...

Otherwise I would tell the recruiter I am not prepared to accept the job under those conditions ... and find a new recruiter ... and a new job ... And in the current market that is not hard to do

Icicle

[littlelisa]

If you like, I can PM you the contract SMOE offered me, which is their standard contract so you can compare if you like. The max teaching hours should be 22 per week (after that you get overtime), not 40!

[Kim Cummings]

Unfortunately, I didn't get her name clearly, and just noticed from my scribbled notes, she is a supervisor in the district office, not a superintendant. (I had been told the super would call.)

I probably should have been more diligent, but assumed I'd get an e-mail from her, with the contract attached.

[Kim Cummings]

One more thing...maybe 2.5 million is high(?) I certainly wasn't expecting or holding out for that, although I'd been given 2.2-2.6 as a range given my experience. I also got that idea from other posts on this forum and recently saw a description -somewhere on-line -of the categories & corresponding pay levels. Unless I misinterpreted it, it seems that for someone with my level of education & experience, 2.5 m is about right. But, if 2.5 is high, perhaps that's why those extra hours are there. Still, by my calculations, it still doesn't add up.

Thing is, I'd actually be prepared to work for less at any school that was a decent place and reasonable about OT. I want to teach AND enjoy other aspects of life in Korea, so would rather earn less & have time to enjoy myself. (No student loans to pay off! )

I understand why OT might be necessary occasionally... In Canada, teachers in some provinces get pressured to teach in their spares to cover for absent staff & while I don't think that's right, most teachers do work extra hours and aren't paid for them. Like many teachers, I've worked many unpaid hours - staying late to meet a parent, getting report cards done, doing the planning/marking that never seems to get done in those rare "spares" or after school because of yet another meeting ... Then, there's all the extra-curricular activities with the students (sports, school newsletter, concerts, etc.). I would probably want to take part in extra-curricular activities in Korea, too if it involved the students doing fun/different things outside of the regular classroom routine. However, volunteering is one thing, being forced to take part is another....

...and, of course, teachers in Canada get compensated for all those extra hours by the two month holiday in the summer, spring break (a week), Christmas break(two weeks often)...

[blueskies]

Hi Kim,

Please check your PM's.

[blueskies]

Kim, I re-sent the pm.

[Kim Cummings]

I can't seem to access my pms. Everything's downloading slowly, but can't get to my pms (I'm not have trouble on other sites, just ESL Cafe...)

I'll keep trying...