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darkhorse_NZ
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: South Korea
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 Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
darkhorse:
You are truly ignorant. Had not the Marines trained in NZ and then taken Guadalcanal the New Zealanders would have been part of the "Great East Asia Co Prosperity sphere.
Are you still upset with the fact that many NZ beauties, married and single really appreciated having a man around the house for a while. Britain had the NZ military in Europe getting decimated for the Empirah!
Try reading Churchill's History of WWII. You might lean something.
In WWI the Russians had been defeated. The entire German and Austrian Armies were about the become free to attack the western front. The Americans were there to defeat the last offnsive.
In WWII the Americans carried nearly the entire war against Japan. In Europe the did well.
The most important part of succeeding in a war, any war, is not courage, well trained troops, tactics, or whatever. It is logistics. The US has mastered this like no other nation. What is it?
It is the ability to move vast numbers of men and vast amounts of material over huge distances very quickly. That is what wins wars.
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obviously you can't read buddy, I already expressed my gratitude, but like I said, we don't owe you anything.
try reading my post before commenting, you're just repeated what I said, fool. When the hell did I attack american courage or logistics? I know what logistics are, buddy, you are not smart! |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I think what the Prime Minister was saying is that the US is selfless. The US doesn't ask for payback. No President or Administration has every told any country "We did this for you. Now you owe us." |
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darkhorse_NZ
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| I think what the Prime Minister was saying is that the US is selfless. The US doesn't ask for payback. No President or Administration has every told any country "We did this for you. Now you owe us." |
Unless we're talking about France, right? |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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darkhorse:
I am not an American, I'm a very right wing Canadian.
Had huge and resource rich Canada been located next to any country in the world but the US we would have ceased to exist long ago. As I said New Zealand would have ceased to exist had it not been for the US.
You sure as heck do owe them. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| darkhorse_NZ wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| I think what the Prime Minister was saying is that the US is selfless. The US doesn't ask for payback. No President or Administration has every told any country "We did this for you. Now you owe us." |
Unless we're talking about France, right? |
I don't recall anyone from the Bush administration telling the French "You support us because we saved your ass from Hitler." |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| darkhorse_NZ wrote: |
| Unless we're talking about France, right? |
Hmm, France.
Germany had France in both World Wars -- and quite literally in the Second. We pulled it up out of the ashes. Saved it. Then rebuilt it.
But for us, it would not be there anymore.
Stubbornly held onto its Southeast-Asian colonies after the war, even though the world had changed in the meantime. Refused our advice to grant independence, even though we financed France's reconstruction and we financed France's war against the Vietminh. Sucked us into its losing position after the utter stupidity that we now call "Dien Bien Phu." Worked against us at Geneva in 1954. And then criticized and blamed us for fighting the war throughout the 1960s -- the Algerian War's brutality notwithstanding, I guess.
Later made a big show of pulling out of NATO and exploded and then deployed their own nukes -- openly against our wishes.
Recently and bitterly criticized us for imperialism.
Some payback. In any case, I, too, do not recall ever hearing W. Bush's citing the Second World War when asking for French support in Iraq or elsewhere in the Middle East.
Last edited by Gopher on Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:44 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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darkhorse_NZ
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| contrarian wrote: |
darkhorse:
I am not an American, I'm a very right wing Canadian.
Had huge and resource rich Canada been located next to any country in the world but the US we would have ceased to exist long ago. As I said New Zealand would have ceased to exist had it not been for the US.
You sure as heck do owe them. |
New Zealand would have been quite different but it wouldn't have ceased to exist. So, do the British owe NZ for the many pilots we gave during the Battle of Britain? Does America still owe France? Or does France still owe America? We fought in Vietnam when other bigger Allies wouldn't, when shall the debt be repaid?
The point is we are on the same side 95% of the time and owe is such a strong word to use.
To imply that NZ owes America, would imply that we sat on our as5es during the war doing nothing while the Yanks fought and died in our name alone.
NZ doesn't owe America anything, we owe Allied servicemen everything. |
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darkhorse_NZ
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| darkhorse_NZ wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| I think what the Prime Minister was saying is that the US is selfless. The US doesn't ask for payback. No President or Administration has every told any country "We did this for you. Now you owe us." |
Unless we're talking about France, right? |
I don't recall anyone from the Bush administration telling the French "You support us because we saved your ass from Hitler." |
No, you're quite right. But many right-wing commentators have and posters on this forum. Plus the whole Freedom Fries debacle which was samefully pathetic. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Self-loathing Canadian eh? You must be a fan of Conrad Black. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Alias wrote: |
| Self-loathing Canadian, eh? |
What is the problem? Canadian nationalists cannot tolerate homegrown critics?
I think he loves his country and just wants to call people's attention to its problems so that things might get better. LOL. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Alias wrote: |
| Self-loathing Canadian, eh? |
What is the problem? Canadian nationalists cannot tolerate homegrown critics?
I think he loves his country and just wants to call people's attention to its problems so that things might get better. LOL. |
His "Canada wouldn't exist if it wasn't for America" comment makes me doubt that very much. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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You're welcome....  |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: |
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darkhorse to contrarian:
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| try reading my post before commenting, you're just repeated what I said, fool |
Guess it takes one to know one, eh?
I think you need to reread my previous post. Nowhere did I mention the word "owe." As for debt, I was referring not only to the sacrifice of lives but the financial debt.
But moving on from semantic gymnastics: I'll be one of the first to acknowledge the fine role played by Kiwis in the Second World War, not only in England but in the Pacific war. And their gallantry as POWs on the River Kwai cannot be forgotten. I'm afraid much of that can-do spirit has been lost now, however,
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| Of course, Brown's only doing it for points, then what are the likes of Steve-o McGarrett doing it for? |
My, how cynical of you. If that were his sole purpose, why did Brown express his intent to pull British troops out of Iraq by the end of the year? Mull on that one for a while before proceeding...
I hope you're not one of those self-fashioned Kiwi socialists. You know, if you spend too much time in the sheep pastures there, you'll start bleating as much as they do. 
gopher wrote:
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| Some payback. In any case, I, too, do not recall ever hearing W. Bush's citing the Second World War when asking for French support in Iraq or elsewhere in the Middle East. |
He didn't, except in the minds of moonbats. And your synopsis of Franco-American relations is dead-on the mark. Many Algerians still sour at the very mention of the French. They leave a bad taste in my mouth too. |
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LuckyNomad
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Rest assured. America's allies will always be there when they need us. |
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darkhorse_NZ
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:52 am Post subject: |
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I don't think the 'can-do' attitude's been lost at all...it still constitutes an important part of kiwi culture.
that's what happens when you come from a small country and you can't just throw money at problems.
you said the something like the "debt goes back to the First World War". I'll stick by my original point that we were all on the same side and owe each other nothing but a pat on the back as we each played our role to the fullest of our abilities.
and to answer your question, NO, I'm not a self-fashioned Kiwi socialist. I'm a born and bred Patriot who resents some people's idea that the world owes them for their existence. |
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