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Are they the lemmings
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Location: Not here anymore. JongnoGuru was the only thing that kept me here.
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 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: Study habits of K kids overseas |
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I found this on Google News, and wondered if it might be relevant to this board. It sounds like something straight out of Dave's  |
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darkhorse_NZ
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Asian kids are heaps more diligent than Kiwis, but it's all rote learning man. The thinking is too linear to survive in a world of constant variables and change.
I'd much rather the kiwi approach to education which is more well rounded but I spose 'cos i was brought up on it. |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| darkhorse_NZ wrote: |
Asian kids are heaps more diligent than Kiwis, but it's all rote learning man. The thinking is too linear to survive in a world of constant variables and change.
I'd much rather the kiwi approach to education which is more well rounded but I spose 'cos i was brought up on it. |
While I agree that it might not be the best system, this is kind of a silly comment. They have survived up until now and appear to be doing just fine.
GDP per capita
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28 New Zealand 25,531 2005
29 Brunei 25,315 2004
30 South Korea 23,926 2005 |
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darkhorse_NZ
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ajgeddes wrote: |
| darkhorse_NZ wrote: |
Asian kids are heaps more diligent than Kiwis, but it's all rote learning man. The thinking is too linear to survive in a world of constant variables and change.
I'd much rather the kiwi approach to education which is more well rounded but I spose 'cos i was brought up on it. |
While I agree that it might not be the best system, this is kind of a silly comment. They have survived up until now and appear to be doing just fine.
GDP per capita
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28 New Zealand 25,531 2005
29 Brunei 25,315 2004
30 South Korea 23,926 2005 |
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True, true 'survive' wasn't the best word, probably 'thrive' would have been better or 'adapt quickly to change and unforeseen circumstances'. I mean on an individual basis.
Have you ever asked something of a Korean person and if it isn't written or explained somewhere then they're at a total loss as to what to do?
Many seem to lack lateral thinking ability and their pattern of thought seems to fall down prenurtured lines.
I blame the education system for this. |
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VirginIslander
Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Asian kids are heaps more diligent than Kiwis, but it's all rote learning man. The thinking is too linear to survive in a world of constant variables and change. |
It doesnt have to be one or the other. In order to be successful, one has to be both dilligent and maleable.
Korean children and East Indians children in American do well in school, especially Medical School, because they were raised in both cultures.
Visit any Univesity in America, walk around the library on a Saturday night and who will you see? |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| darkhorse_NZ wrote: |
Asian kids are heaps more diligent than Kiwis, but it's all rote learning man. The thinking is too linear to survive in a world of constant variables and change.
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I fully agree with you of course. Koreans don't study to prepare for that world of variables and change. They study for tests so they can qualify to take more tests. That's the problem. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say most, not all, Korean students at my university were extremely diligent and got top grades.
Its a catch 22 really. Rich Koreans send their kids to America or Britain to a Tier 1 University. The kids graduate and they end up staying instead of going back to Korea to practice what they learned.
Why should the kids WANT to go back to Korea. The Korean students would make a lot more money staying than they would going back to Korea. |
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VirginIslander
Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Its a catch 22 really. Rich Koreans send their kids to America or Britain to a Tier 1 University. The kids graduate and they end up staying instead of going back to Korea to practice what they learned.
Why should the kids WANT to go back to Korea. The Korean students would make a lot more money staying than they would going back to Korea. |
Its called Brain Drain. Its not just a Korean or a country problem. We have a big problem with that in Pennsylvania. Americans from other states come to study at Upenn, PennU, Temple, Drexel, UPitt and all the other big schools, which are partially funded by the state government, and then they leave after graduation.
But, I would argue that Koreans are not staying in those countries strictly for the money in itself. They are doing it for what that money can buy there and not here. For example, a backyard. |
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minorthreat
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: in your base, killing your mans
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| Every time someone brings up how much more homework Asian kids do and how much more diligent they are, I always have to wonder: if Asian kids are really that much more hardworking than us lazy whiteys, then why do they resort to cheating and plagiarism so much more often? |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| minorthreat wrote: |
| Every time someone brings up how much more homework Asian kids do and how much more diligent they are, I always have to wonder: if Asian kids are really that much more hardworking than us lazy whiteys, then why do they resort to cheating and plagiarism so much more often? |
More often?? I didn't know that "Asians" were more inclined to cheat than other people. Back in my high school days, it was the white football/wrestling jocks that did most of the cheating.
No one said white people were lazy or stupid. The top 10% of the students at my high school had a lot of white people, and they got there by working their butt off. I would say that they worked just as hard as the Asians to get their spot.
Its not that the kids just up and decide "Hey, I'm gonna study my butt off." We teach Korean kids, we know that Korean kids love to goof off and put off studying as much as kids anywhere else in the world. The difference in the pressure that the family puts on the children to be successful.
In my family, I got straight A's up until I was in 8th grade. I used to get punished pretty bad for bringing home a B or a C. I studied my butt off mainly cuz of fear of the repercussions than because I wanted to do well at school. Then all of a sudden I brought home B's and C's and my parents didn't kill me. So, I started to slack off. I ended up graduating High School with a 3.0 GPA. In a lot of Korean families in the US, that is equivalent to failing.
My parents eased up. They cut me some slack. I was able to have a healthy (or unhealhty which way you look at it) social life in high school and make memories that will last til I die.
How many "whiteys" (that you put it) get beat if they don't bring home A's? Just because Asians leave Asia doesn't mean they are "western" as soon as they enter international waters. Look at the culture of the homes in these Asian families where the kids do extremely well in school. You will see that there is still the immense pressure on the kids to do well.
I don't have any facts or figures, but I'm 99% sure that 1st generation Asian immigrant students do extremely well in school. 2nd and 3rd and 4th generation and so on probably just do average overall.
Its not Race that makes Asians studious. Its the culture that puts so much f-ing pressure on the kids to do well.
Don't turn this into a racial thing where its Asians versus "whitey" (that you put it). |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| One problem with these little anecdotes about Asian kids abroad is that they are from wealthier, competitive, well-to-do families. Asian kids all study hard and they're all such high achievers. Surely anyone who's spent more than five minutes in an Asian public school has to swallow their cliche grimace when they hear this. |
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server1a
Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
More often?? I didn't know that "Asians" were more inclined to cheat than other people. Back in my high school days, it was the white football/wrestling jocks that did most of the cheating.
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There have been a few articles and even threats of discrimination lawsuits at a few US universities because proffs started looking harder when dealing with Asian (specifically Korean) student' essays. The ones interviewed found that it was easier to find plagarism cases amongst asian students due to the drastic difference in writing styles, something that western students (native english speakers) can mask much easier.
What they basically admitted is with Korean students they started from a "Guilty until proven innocent" standpoint, hence the outrage. What happened is that it became a self-fufilling prophecy so to speak since they stated finding even more. Something upwards of 30% rates of plagarism.
Will try and find the article.
p.s. Had a 3rd grade class of mine write a one page essay, they had 4 class perids to do it. One of the essays had "[citation needed]. It was entirely ripped, every word from Wikipedia. She got a zero, and the reason I gave at the end of the essay was a wikipedia link to the definition of plagarism. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe Western Kids (Including Native English speaking Asians), which has better grasp of the language, is better able to hide plagiarism.
I would think it would be easier for a native speaker of a country to find a source and change it just enough so that it sounds original and not plagiarized. I think an international student would have a harder time changing words, structure, and "paraphrasing" to get away with it. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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When I was a uni TA at a very multi-ethnic university it was the Greek students who had by far the worst reputation for plagiarism, along with southeastern and southern Europeans in general. One university student plagiarised an American high school student's paper off the Internet.
I only ever marked one paper written by a Korean and I'm 100% positive that prose abortion was entirely her own making. Sadly I think the vast, vast majority of Korean-raised students could not or could barely pass a liberal arts class that was evaluated soley on written work.
As for K-kids studying abroad, look at what happens to 80%+ of them - even adult students - when they're put to work with little supervision or authority over them. Even if they want to try they don't have a bloody clue what to do. |
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VirginIslander
Joined: 24 May 2006
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Its not Race that makes Asians studious. Its the culture that puts so much f-ing pressure on the kids to do well |
Of course its culture and economics, not race. When we refer to Asians doing very well, we're refering to Koreans, Japanese, Chinese and East Indians...but not Cambodians, Thais or Hmongs. |
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