| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mack4289
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
|
 Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Tony_Balony wrote: |
Mack, I've said enough already. I pretty much only write to my congressman and president now. I disagree with you about what America is and has been and i'm dissapointed that you have don't standards for Mexico ... what has Mexico always been? What is it now? Its not healthy. i'd like a mature Mexico because Mexico is my next door neighbor. the recent change has been all about the US, thats just not neighborly and our discussion has no mention of mexico doing anything out of the ordinary.
If the Mexicans want to come and work, there might be room but this whole wave of lawsuits, false IDs, "civil rights marches" needs to end. Thats not how you win friends.
The Chinese weren't in Gangs of New York BTW. |
They're in the book, not the movie. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I hear people say that mexicans don't care about america, don't want to speak english, only hang out with themselves, etc. But how much truth is there to these claims? I think if we gave them citizenship, mexicans would easily integrate into america in terms of culture. Hanging out with a bunch of mexicans and getting along with them is way easier than hanging out with a bunch of koreans. Also, I don't envy europe, because they are absorbing a lot of middle easterners, and I think there's a real cultural clash going on there.
Also, you think it'd be nice if every immigrant was a rich and well educated. But the economy needs unskilled labor too. The only thing I worry about is that the mexicans would drive down wages, and would exist as some exploited underclass for corporations to work to the bone. But I don't know the economics of the situation, and there is no discussion of this on the news, to know exactly what the overall effect of illegal immigrant labor is on wages. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dmbfan
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
I'd have to agree with the earlier poster, tho, that tolerating illegal immigrants is damaging to our national wellbeing and image, ( What does it say about the US as a nation that we can't police our own borders effectively?) as well as being a genuine slap in the face to those who are waiting out the protracted and expensive process of becoming legal immigrants. |
bingo.
It is also sad when people are for passing out citizenship stamps like canday..........as if it does not mean anything.
dmbfan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| should read "Gangs of New York" |
Point taken, I'm not going to read popular culture books for this matter. Refer an essay or something similar. Wikipedia told me about the Tong Wars. you also can't disqualify me from a debate based on me not reading a popular culture book that is a large persuasive essay.
I think your point being is that the early immigrants were rough but then transformed in subsequent generations due to the strength of the American culture.
The US is also much more than a place to make money.
Our reality is that Mexico and Central America is next door and unlike in most other cases where we can turn immigration on and off, we cant in this case and in fact we are really talking about merging The US and all nations between the US and the Darien Gap in a way where The US is required to give but the other nations remain intact however detrimental that might be. Is it the US's job to "fix" all of these people?
These people make alot babies that in turn makes alot of need and want and that in turn causes alot of immigration and it looks like a a situation where they will never really get passed the early stage of immigration since the flow of people will be constant.
Worse yet is a race-nativist aspect of the Aztecs and the ability of the go between phenomena where Mexican Americans can go back to Mexico and work for reclaiming lands stolen from them openly during Mexican politics.
The idea that the US is the perpetual fixer and its Mexico's right as well as all other nations place and right to remain problematic and beyond criticism is bizarre. Is that our relationship?
I thought the immigration debate would be a chance to talk about us and not just US. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| billybrobby wrote: |
| I hear people say that mexicans don't care about america, don't want to speak english, only hang out with themselves, etc. But how much truth is there to these claims? |
I think you have little or no understanding of ground conditions in the American Southwest and Southern California. At least, such a statement as this strongly suggests that to me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mack4289
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tony_Balony wrote: |
| Quote: |
| should read "Gangs of New York" |
Point taken, I'm not going to read popular culture books for this matter. Refer an essay or something similar. Wikipedia told me about the Tong Wars. you also can't disqualify me from a debate based on me not reading a popular culture book that is a large persuasive essay.
I think your point being is that the early immigrants were rough but then transformed in subsequent generations due to the strength of the American culture.
The US is also much more than a place to make money.
Our reality is that Mexico and Central America is next door and unlike in most other cases where we can turn immigration on and off, we cant in this case and in fact we are really talking about merging The US and all nations between the US and the Darien Gap in a way where The US is required to give but the other nations remain intact however detrimental that might be. Is it the US's job to "fix" all of these people?
These people make alot babies that in turn makes alot of need and want and that in turn causes alot of immigration and it looks like a a situation where they will never really get passed the early stage of immigration since the flow of people will be constant.
Worse yet is a race-nativist aspect of the Aztecs and the ability of the go between phenomena where Mexican Americans can go back to Mexico and work for reclaiming lands stolen from them openly during Mexican politics.
The idea that the US is the perpetual fixer and its Mexico's right as well as all other nations place and right to remain problematic and beyond criticism is bizarre. Is that our relationship?
I thought the immigration debate would be a chance to talk about us and not just US. |
You can see my earlier posts on this board about why the population growth is a competitive advantage for the US.
I don't view the US as allowing immigration to be charitable or nice. We need the cheap labor and the younger tax base. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm out - have a good debate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gopher wrote: |
| billybrobby wrote: |
| I hear people say that mexicans don't care about america, don't want to speak english, only hang out with themselves, etc. But how much truth is there to these claims? |
I think you have little or no understanding of ground conditions in the American Southwest and Southern California. At least, such a statement as this strongly suggests that to me. |
I haven't been to that part of the country in a long time, but I come from a state with heavy mexican immigration, and I worked side by side with them in the backs of various kitchens all through college. So I dunno if that makes me an expert on "ground conditions" but I'm not just arguing from some ivory tower. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| billybrobby wrote: |
| ...but I'm not just arguing from some ivory tower. |
Great. Because I know this area, these particular states, and their ground conditions on this issue intimately.
Have you ever attented one of these people's rallies on a UC campus, for example? I have. Ever tried to get to know any of them at one of their chicanos-only events? Think they are just nice people who love America and want to get to know other peoples and cultures, do you?
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mack4289
Joined: 06 Dec 2006
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gopher wrote: |
| billybrobby wrote: |
| ...but I'm not just arguing from some ivory tower. |
Great. Because I know this area, these particular states, and their ground conditions on this issue intimately.
Have you ever attented one of these people's rallies on a UC campus, for example? I have. Ever tried to get to know any of them at one of their chicanos-only events? Think they are just nice people who love America and want to get to know other peoples and cultures, do you?
|
Chicanos-only events and university rallies are a pretty selective sample of the population. There are idiots on universities everywhere (I used to be one- now I've graduated to being a Dave's idiot). If you judged any group based on the members you met at rallies, that group would come out looking pretty bad. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Chuckling.
Keep playing the defense; keep minimizing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
whatever
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Location: Korea: More fun than jail.
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Juregen wrote: |
| Your opinion on anti immigration to the West probably finds its roots in the believe that the Muslim religion does not allow flexibility in interpretation, nor does it allow for adapting to the evolving world. |
Yep. And it's spot on.
nice spelling errors...don't worry, they're not the only errors... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Gopher wrote: |
Chuckling.
Keep playing the defense; keep minimizing. |
Wow, your oblique, self-assured comments are such a good substitute for debate. Keep chuckling. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
