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| Will (most) humans one day look back at the 21 century treatment of animals the way we look at 18th century slavery? |
| Yes |
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7% |
[ 4 ] |
| Probably |
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5% |
[ 3 ] |
| Maybe |
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12% |
[ 7 ] |
| Nothing will change |
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3% |
[ 2 ] |
| No, not at all |
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24% |
[ 14 ] |
| That's nuts! |
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35% |
[ 20 ] |
| I hope so |
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12% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 57 |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:53 am Post subject: Slavery of Animals |
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Some people already feel that the way we treat animals is as abhorrent as the way slaves were treated a couple of centuries ago.
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/benjamin_zephaniah/2007/08/the_new_face_of_slavery.html
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All animals are made of flesh, blood and bone - including us, the human animal. All animals have the same five senses, value their families, form friendships, have individual personalities and don't want to die. Other animals are more like humans than they are unlike humans.
Just as it is always wrong to oppress and abuse less powerful humans, it is always wrong to abuse and oppress animals. Because today's victims of tyranny are unable to speak for themselves, it is up to people of principle to speak out for them. Animals' lives are as important to them as ours are to us. We must stand up for them, as good people from other eras stood up and even risked their own lives in order to defend children from sweatshops and women's right to vote and fought against massacres of entire groups of people and other acts of violence.
It has been 200 years since parliament banned the slave trade. It's about time that enlightened attitude was extended to other exploited beings. Every day we have countless opportunities - from what we eat to what we wear - to choose whether to support or oppose injustice. Let's choose not to be a part of cruelty, violence and enslavement - in any of its forms. |
As for myself, I do hope that opinion evolves in this direction. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Abusing an animal is the sign of a sick mind.
However, they're still animals. While it's fine for us rich first-worlders to keep one or two around as ego decorations, it's work or be eaten time in the rest of the world.
Once they gain the ability to make tools and hold a conversation, we can start talking about slavery. |
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enns
Joined: 02 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:39 am Post subject: |
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I think animals should never be put in the same category as African Americans, women, or children. This is apples and oranges here. One day we may see 21st century treatment of animals as excessively cruel, but never will it be compared to the suffering of humans.
My personal opinion: needless cruelty should be stopped, but eating meat is both acceptable and natural.
How far do we take this notion of not harming living things? Are fish ok to eat, do they possess adequate feelings? Will one day we claim that plants should be unharmed? Some studies show that plants also have a sense of feeling(they tend to live longer in peaceful households than those in turmoil, for example). Where is a line drawn?
Good topic nevertheless, BB |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for starting the poll, BB. I voted, "I hope so."
Hopefully I'll have time to write more later. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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I do not think anyone approves of abusing animals.
On the other hand, this "slavery" is nonsense. Would you reverse the Neolithic Revolution, Big_Bird? Because, ultimately, that is what you are implying. |
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Don Gately
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: In a basement taking a severe beating
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd find this thread pretty damn offensive if I were a person of African ancestry. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Gately wrote: |
| I'd find this thread pretty damn offensive if I were a person of African ancestry. |
Well Mr Gately, why don't you direct your outrage at the man who wrote the article. His name is Benjamin Zephaniah
And he looks like this:
You can add your outraged comments below his article: The Lives of Others
And for the record, this is not the first time I've heard black animal rights activisits compare our treatment of animals with slavery. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe in the future humans will regard some of the ways animals are treated now in some places as inhumane or unnecessarily cruel, but I think the analogy proposed is really unfortunate. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Don Gately wrote: |
| I'd find this thread pretty damn offensive if I were a person of African ancestry. |
Why? Because of the clean connection of African = Animal?
You're just being oversensitive. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Don Gately wrote: |
| I'd find this thread pretty damn offensive if I were a person of African ancestry. |
Well Mr Gately, why don't you direct your outrage at the man who wrote the article. His name is Benjamin Zephaniah
And he looks like this:
You can add your outraged comments below his article: The Lives of Others
And for the record, this is not the first time I've heard black animal rights activisits compare our treatment of animals with slavery. |
Nice one! The argument to racial authority! How authentic of you!
With a picture and all! |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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I think as we come to understand more how animals think and feel we may come to feel that way.
I'm not sure whats wrong with comparing a slave trade to animals. People of all colors were slaves at one time or another.
Last edited by JMO on Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ChimpumCallao
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Maybe in the future humans will regard some of the ways animals are treated now in some places as inhumane or unnecessarily cruel, but I think the analogy proposed is really unfortunate. |
Agree- animals are not conscious or self-aware in the same sense we are, and to state that ALL animals have feelings, is simply incorrect.
Also, I think it does us no good to use the blanket of animal rights for ALL animals. There is nothing wrong with making value judgements, due to an animal's ability to feel pain, its intellect, etc. Do I think the life of a cetacean is more important and worthy of protecting than a jellyfish? YES!
I think cruelty to animals is wrong and disgusitng, but not because they are like us- they are not...I think it is wrong because they are living things and we can never know what degree of pain they feel. It is also the mark of a good person to be kind to al lliving things and not inflict any uncessary pain.
On a side note- Big Bird and others, how do you feel about the direct correlation with animal ownership in Africa and increase of the same animal's population. When farmers etc, are allowed to own the elephants, lions, etc on their property and make profit from them, their numbers go up. When these practices are made illegal, and no one owns the animal, poaching goes up and the animal population goes down. How do you reconcile animal 'slavery' positively affecting animal population?
(I think its a great idea, btw, as long as the animals are not tortured. When something is everyone's- it is no one's and therefore protected by no one....) |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Agree- animals are not conscious or self-aware in the same sense we are, and to state that ALL animals have feelings, is simply incorrect.
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Do we know this for sure though. I thought that the latest research indicated that some animals were more like us than we thought. Someone help me out on this, I don't remember where I saw it/heard it. Might have been on a podcast.
| Quote: |
| On a side note- Big Bird and others, how do you feel about the direct correlation with animal ownership in Africa and increase of the same animal's population |
Could this not work with slavery also. Assuming you tried to kill all the slaves that escaped then it would be safer for them to be enslaved.
Last edited by JMO on Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Animals eat each other. Humans are predators, and meat eaters.
While I agree that those animals that we raise to eat should be dealt with in a "humane" way, I do not think that anyone who compares the (ongoing) slavery of humans by other humans to animal abuse is a serious person whatsoever. Dreds or not.
Check out some real animal abuse by your Korean overlords. They pulled apart a live pig as part of a protest.
Now that is barbaric.
Many members of my family are cattle farmers, and I have a great deal of experience with the whole process. My own personal opinion is that chickens are far too friendly and social for me to eat, so I seldom eat them. Cows, lamb, pigs etc. Delicious. As Thundarr always said "Amazing new machine turns grass into steak!". How true. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Just a moment.
I missed the part where we agreed that we can and should apply "human rights" to animals. |
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