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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: somewhere in Korea
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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LUCRETIA wrote: |
There is nothing wrong with having your own observations, drawing conclusions and making generaliztions - none of us will ever meet every Korean and understand Korea objectively, but living in a country for long enough and being immersed in the culture gives you a little permission to have your own opinion about your own experiences there.
I have opinions about Korea too, and just because I haven't got perfect, double blind, scientific, controlled experiments and data to back it up, doesn't mean my opinions are not worth somehting.
The nature of this board is discussion not academic study - I agree that the OP might have been a bit too sure, presenting his observations as total truth, but I for one agree with him, and I take the subway at all differant times
I have taught for about eight months, and have seen only one kid reading an actual book that wasn't school related. I have had many Korean people tell me how they do not read, because it is boring or they don't have time. Sure, Canadian kids and American kids are probably lazy about it, too.
But that's not what the post is about. |
Then keep it as a discussion and hypothesizing. Do not state that it is a fact that Koreans don't read without good proof. Too many people are not doing that, but saying, "This is true." I have no problem with observations and opinion kept in that realm. I have no problem with theorizing, though I believe a lot of the theorizing on here to be as baseless as saying all Americans are arrogant people who can't find any country on the map. Why is this so hard to figure out for people? Do not state something is true without proof. Making a hypothesis and trying to build proof of it are normal steps to a factual theory. It's just so many here forgot about that stage. |
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ghost

Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Location: Many congenial places
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: stats not needed |
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Why would you need statistics about the fact that Koreans read much less for pleasure (and that is the key - pleasurable reading) compared with nations with similar GDP's and per capita incomes, when you have the evidence right in front of you as you travel the Seoul subway - thousands of Koreans just sitting there and staring ahead or dozing, with no reading materials to hand except in a rare case? The evidence is right there. You don't need a research sociology professor to do a sample for that.
I always observe commuters when travelling in different capital cities - and from London, Paris, Prague, Istanbul, via Japan and Seoul - Seoul and Korea are the places where commuters and travellers read the least - by far! Koreans just sit there, or compose inane messages on their cell phones.
I recall taking the KTX down to Pusan from Seoul - same story - hardly anyone reading, despite a journey of a few hours. I had the fortune of sitting next to a Korean young guy who had been studying Physical Education and biomechanics at Moscow State University, and he confessed to me that it was only when he arrived in Moscow, that he learned to read for pleasure and to read as a matter of habit. Koreans, he told me, associate reading with a 'task' to be accomplished, such as getting a better score on an exam.
Yes - some people read 'best sellers' like the 'Da Vinci code' - not because they are really interested in the book or the topic, but rather because the book was promoted ad nauseum in Korea, just like 'Harry Potter' which is another piece of 'Literature' which 'educated' Koreans feel compelled to read - dutifully, I might add.
Ask any educated Korean how many books he/she has read in a lifetime, and most will confess to not remembering, because most have not read a single book for pleasure. The only classics they may have read would have been part of Literature courses at University, for prospective English teachers. Once the course is finished - the book will be discarded. Go into any Korean home - no library or books in evidence - but plenty of DVD's and other electronic games gadgets.
Koreans associate reading with mind numbing memorization of text passages and rules from their middle and high school years. Not surprising that picking up a book is alien to most Koreans.
Ghost in Korea |
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dutchy pink
Joined: 06 Feb 2007 Location: Incheon
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Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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ghost says Koreans just sit on the train and "compose inane messages on their cell phones". How do you know what they are writing? Perhaps the train is like a giant book club meeting, everybody engaged in deep literary discussions, via text messasges, about the pros and cons of magical realism, debating the books they stayed up all night reading.
Perhaps the whole idea of Koreans reading for pleasure is magical realism. |
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Billy Pilgrim

Joined: 08 Sep 2004
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:39 am Post subject: |
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Go to friggin' Kyobo bookstore on a weekend and tell me Koreans don't like books. |
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pkang0202

Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Do they have DMB in those other countries? Close to greater than 95% cell phone/internet coverage?
How expensive is it to get programs streamed to mobile devices in those other countries? Do they have PMP's and other crazy gadgets that people look at instead of books while traveling?
People read more books in the other countries because its:
A. Too damn expensive to get a data package for their cell phone/PDA
B. Too damn expensive to get a PMP
C. No widespread distribution of Media over wireless
D. A hundred other things that make it difficult to watch TV, movies, browse the internet while traveling.
Thats like saying "Koreans don't own as many cars as people in other countries." No kidding captain obvious, they have extensive public transportation.
Oh wait, here's another one "Koreans don't speak English as well as people from US, Canada, Great Britain, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, etc..."
People in Korea don't read as much because they have other OPTIONS. |
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JongnoGuru

Joined: 25 May 2004 Location: peeing on your doorstep
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Billy Pilgrim wrote: |
Go to friggin' Kyobo bookstore on a weekend and tell me Koreans don't like books. |
Sure, the biggest bookstore in Korea, central downtown Seoul. No surprise there. But really, since when do Cindy the Perky mags, the Gogo Loves Cornholing series, and cellphone knick-knacks count as books?
pkang0202 wrote: |
People read more books in the other countries because its:
A. Too damn expensive to get a data package for their cell phone/PDA
B. Too damn expensive to get a PMP
C. No widespread distribution of Media over wireless
D. A hundred other things that make it difficult to watch TV, movies, browse the internet while traveling. |
Oh for heaven's sake, EVEN KOREANS aren't buying that argument. They themselves acknowledged long ago they don't read as much as people in other countries. And by "long ago" I mean decades before any of this geek-head gee-whizzery you mention was conceived. What might their excuse have been then? Too poor? Too illiterate? Too busy watching their whopping two channels of black & white TV? Read my and KOREAN_MAN's previous posts. The average Korean's continuing disdain for books has nothing to do with modern technology.
Last edited by JongnoGuru on Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tigerbluekitty
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:48 am Post subject: |
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I come from southern California where people don't read books much either unless if they have some college course.
So I'm gonna admit - I don't read books much either, unless if it's gonna help me make money. |
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Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: |
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I have found the total opposite of the OP.
I ride the subway everyday (my monthly subway bill is around 100k) and I seemorethan my share of Koreans reading. The vast majority at rush hour read those free newspapers - the rest read papers and books (even the occassional english one).
If I was to compare that to a subway ride in Canada.. shoot, I don't think I'd see even one person reading.
The OP is WAY off (as the majority here have already stated). |
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KOREAN_MAN
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: |
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laogaiguk wrote: |
Then keep it as a discussion and hypothesizing. Do not state that it is a fact that Koreans don't read without good proof. Too many people are not doing that, but saying, "This is true." I have no problem with observations and opinion kept in that realm. I have no problem with theorizing, though I believe a lot of the theorizing on here to be as baseless as saying all Americans are arrogant people who can't find any country on the map. Why is this so hard to figure out for people? Do not state something is true without proof. Making a hypothesis and trying to build proof of it are normal steps to a factual theory. It's just so many here forgot about that stage. |
I see your point, but relax. This is just casual writing. It's not like the OP was writing a thesis. So why a put down?
You know, some English teachers scold their students for writing the phrase "in my opinion," because everything you write is your opinion. The OP can say whatever he wants. If he's not convincing, then don't believe in what he says. But it doesn't mean you can take shots at him.
Do you actually believe there is such a thing as absolute truth? Didn't Mark Twain say, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics?"
Here's an example. Women always say they want to go out with nice guys. But they actually go out with jerks. Statistics will say women like nice guys. Observations will say women like jerks. Which is true? Statistics are not proof. I would say, more often than not, observations are more scientific than statistics. |
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ghost

Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Location: Many congenial places
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:11 am Post subject: woody allen |
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Quote: |
Observations will say women like jerks. Which is true? Statistics are not proof. I would say, more often than not, observations are more scientific than statistics. |
That's why you never see 'nice/sensitive' guys who look like 'Woody Allen' with hot looking chicks!
I hear you all the way.
Ghost in Korea |
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Tiger Beer

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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browneyedgirl wrote: |
Americans don't read much--or not the ones I live around. |
Depends a lot on where you are at in the U.S.
When I lived in Portland Oregon, New York City, and San Francisco, I saw people reading all the frickin' time. Very educated populaces.
But I'm sure there are large pockets of the U.S. population where reading isn't much of a pasttime. Just curious, where is your area of the U.S.? |
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King Baeksu
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: |
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My last three books in Korean sold in the five figures. Not only that, but I get long thoughtful emails and messages on my board from many of my readers here. Koreans are definitey reading, although I agree the local trend is towards instrumentalized reading. Indeed, my publisher recently told me more books are being sold in Korea compared to several years ago, despite the Internet.
Now if I could just get more of the self-righteous know-it-all expats here to read my books as much as Koreans do, I wouldn't have to barf every time I hear some English teacher complain that Koreans don't read books. Judging by the most popular threads on Dave's, if I put the word "tabang" or "racing girls" in the title, I'd sell a bloody truckload. |
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IncognitoHFX

Joined: 06 May 2007 Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:56 am Post subject: |
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I think if people could watch TV for cheap on their cell phones in North America, book reading would decline sharply in public places.
Besides, the only thing I saw people read on the bus back home is the Harry Potter series. |
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Len8
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Location: Kyungju
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: |
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King Baeksu. What books did you write? |
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doggyji

Joined: 21 Feb 2006 Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:13 am Post subject: |
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King Baeksu wrote: |
My last three books in Korean sold in the five figures. Not only that, but I get long thoughtful emails and messages on my board from many of my readers here. |
That is simply impossible. Come on, you are supposed to get only bunch of hate messages from mindless netizens. Dave's is the last bastion of the solid truth about Korea kept by true intellectuals in bubbles.
I know I'm sounding all so annoying with all this useless sarcasm but then this is Dave's, right?  |
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