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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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 Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: Too many foreign loanwords in Korean? |
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http://koreabeat.com/?p=158
This is the most interesting part of the article:
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| In 1998 hanja made up 44%, foreign words 34%, mixed words 11%, Korean 10%, and new words 1%. Compared to the 2006 results hanja decreased significantly, from 44 to 18.09% while foreign words increased from 34 to 40.2%. There was a tendency to neologisms with mixed language going from 11 to 26.01% and new words increasing from 1 to 7.35%. Among all the businesses clothing stores showed the greatest increase in foreign words (17.4 to 30%) and overall, 58% of clothing shops use them. |
I'm inclined to agree with the author about there being too many foreign loanwords in Korean, though not with the silly conclusion that "This love citizens have for foreign words will be fatal for our language. I worry that this kind of thinking will create a language of ambiguous nationality." The real reason is that foreign loanwords don't really help all that much, because:
-They're generally brought in in a pretty haphazard manner, and you can never really tell whether a word is a real English word (Ice tea), a loanword from French or another language (Arbeit), a word that looks real but actually comes from Japanese (rimokon), or a made-up term (netizen). In addition, since people get used to the Korean pronunciation of the word they not only find it awkward to relearn the pronunciation, but other Koreans tend to see it as showing off.
-Unlike hanja, western loanwords don't carry much etymological value unless you've studied the language it comes from.
-Old people get confused and can't read official sites very well anymore. What's a netizen? What's a ubiquitous city?
-Confuses people that are learning Korean because often you will then have a word to describe a term in the dictionary, but then you'll find out that everybody just uses a foreign loanword in daily life. That means sometimes you'll have to use 얼음 for ice when you're really talking about ice, but you have to say 아이스모카 when you want an iced mocha. But the ice water is 얼음물 of course. And a cup for water at Starbucks is a 물컵, not a 물잔. That's fine for people that live here and speak the language, not fine for those that are trying to learn.
-Japan has a huge amount of English loanwords and their English is zilch. Iceland uses as few loanwords as possible.
Those are some of the reasons I can think of. Anything I've missed? Am I wrong? |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
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It bugs me when on Korean tv they even use some English verbs in Korean sentences when the corresponding Korean words are so well and alive.
"그 스토어까지 드라이브해서 리턴하고 왔어요."
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Mith, why do you call 'netizen' a made-up word? I was familiar with that word well before starting to learn Korean. Did it originate from Korean?
A K-E portmanteau I learned the other day was 악플. It's from 악 (惡) and the Korean spelling of 'reply' (리플라이). It's an internet reply to something, meant to hurt the subject or generally offend.
Personally, I think the way Korean is co-opting English is fantastic. Let's face it--Korean is an obscure language, and will probably remain that way. This is a chance for it to gain cachet in the international scene. Konglish as a good thing, like Spanglish, rather than a laughing point.
I also see the possibility of English borrowing Korean words. We use a lot of random words and phrases in English now (bon appetit, hasta la vista, ja, an array of Yiddish, uber..) so it's conceivable we may eventually borrow 안녕, 좋아, 맛있다 and so forth. If the Korean Wave splashes America, that is. 
| doggyji wrote: |
It bugs me when on Korean tv they even use some English verbs in Korean sentences when the corresponding Korean words are so well and alive.
"그 스토어까지 드라이브해서 리턴하고 왔어요."
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I see this a lot, especially amongst Koreans who are fluent in English. It's very bizarre to me, mostly because it assumes the listener knows a handful of English words that aren't usually present in Korean. But, like I said above, I kinda like it. It's cute. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| All words are made-up words. |
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Passions
Joined: 31 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. I hate the invasion of English loanwords that have pervaded the Korean language. It's very confusing and takes a while to pilfer out when reading.
At least in Japanese, foreign words are used with Katakana. Immediately one knows it is a foreign loan word. Easy and simple. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| doggyji wrote: |
It bugs me when on Korean tv they even use some English verbs in Korean sentences when the corresponding Korean words are so well and alive.
"그 스토어까지 드라이브해서 리턴하고 왔어요."
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Yeah, this happens in Indonesian and Hindi as well in my experience. My wife and her former boss would insert English phrases into their Indonesian whilst chatting in the office. Bizarre indeed. As for Mith's assertions though, what would you do? Have a French-style language police who try to come up with indigenous-sounding words to replace foreign loan words? Language is a living, breathing organic thing that is inseparable from the culture in which it exists. And don't forget that English, the ultimate linguistic bottom feeder has largely been successful as a result of it's ability to incorporate new terms from outside. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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The widespread use of English words in the Korean language definitely makes it challenging to teach proper English pronunciation- words like 'camera' and 'sunglasses' require lots of repitition.
It also annoys me on a personal level: I'm trying to learn Korean, not bastardized* English. Sometimes as a joke I do things like refer to sunglasses as "hae ahn kyeong" (no hangeul on this keyboard), but of course no one understands.
* examples: a one room store does not constitute a "super" mart, you probably don't really want your soccer team to "fight", and I don't know what the hell "bravo your life" means.
Last edited by cdninkorea on Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
| As for Mith's assertions though, what would you do? Have a French-style language police who try to come up with indigenous-sounding words to replace foreign loan words? |
Don't they do this in North Korea? I understand they have their own 'true Korean' word for ice cream, for example. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| jaganath69 wrote: |
| As for Mith's assertions though, what would you do? Have a French-style language police who try to come up with indigenous-sounding words to replace foreign loan words? |
Don't they do this in North Korea? I understand they have their own 'true Korean' word for ice cream, for example. |
I've heard the same thing. I remember hearing that they are making a South Korean - North Korean dictionary because the North creates their own words instead of using loan words.
Personally, it is sort of strange. Back home, I'd hear Spanglish quite often but that made sense but here people are so reluctant to speak in English (or are unable) but toss in nonsense like "well-being," pronounce it wrong (well...compared to the English way of saying it) and then somehow put a different spin on its definition. |
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sadsac
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: Gwangwang
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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North Koreans are forbidden to use any form of English interspersed with their language. They speak the purest form of Hangul.  |
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nateium
Joined: 21 Aug 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| The OP is right, but what can/should be done about it? Every language [already widely spoken enough] is a snowball that is just going to keep on rolling down the mountain. The only thing worth worrying about now is the fact that hundreds or smaller indigenous language are going extinct. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Coming from a French Canadian background where keeping English out of the French language seems to be the order of the day, I find the English loan words in Korean kind of ... I dunno. It's hard to explain. "C'mon people have some pride." Even as a learner of Korean, I would rather have real Korean words. You can then make associations and learn more words. Jo cha jang. Ah parking lot. Jang seems to be used a lot for a place... like neng jang go. Cha is car. And Jo. Jo da. Give. So place of car giving. Okay makes sense. Next word.
But as a teacher, I kind of like when my kids suddenly know difficult words like sofa and slipper and then find out these are loan words. Makes my job easier. |
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jaganath69
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| jaganath69 wrote: |
| As for Mith's assertions though, what would you do? Have a French-style language police who try to come up with indigenous-sounding words to replace foreign loan words? |
Don't they do this in North Korea? I understand they have their own 'true Korean' word for ice cream, for example. |
In your previous post I think you miss the point that language is malleable and takes on different context in different cultural settings. Culture does as well. For a good take on the matter I suggest reading Yunxiang Yan's 'McDonalds in Beijing: The Localization of Americana". It deals more with cultural phenomena, but it's the same concept.
As for the second, it would seem to me that it would only be in a closed, authoritarian society that one could seek to purify language and keep out external influence. It comes back to my point that language is a living thing and it's development cannot (and should not) be regulated by governmental decree. Changes in language and loanwords are accelerated by globalisation of media and increased interaction. Better to let people decide to utilise that which they find useful than tilting at windmills and trying to retain some mythic linguistic purity. |
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Sooke
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
Sometimes as a joke I do things like refer to sunglasses as "hae ahn kyeong" (no hangeul on this keyboard), but of course no one understands.
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Hey, I do that too. People are like "Sun gul ass is?"
What gets me is when you say the English word for something (say for example, computer) and your students are all like "Mo? Mo ga lo?" and another student has to pronounce it in Korean "Com pu toh" so they understand.
example: Me: "Do you like computer games?
Students: "Mo?" "Mo?"
smarter student "Com pu toh Gay im"
Students: "Ah, com pu toh gay im"
Me: "Yeah, com pu to gay im"
That rocks. |
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Sooke
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Location: korea
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| jaganath69 wrote: |
As for the second, it would seem to me that it would only be in a closed, authoritarian society that one could seek to purify language and keep out external influence. It comes back to my point that language is a living thing and it's development cannot (and should not) be regulated by governmental decree. Changes in language and loanwords are accelerated by globalisation of media and increased interaction. Better to let people decide to utilise that which they find useful than tilting at windmills and trying to retain some mythic linguistic purity. |
Shhhhhhhh. Don't tell Quebec. |
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