Korean Job Discussion Forums

[kermo]

I was at The Coffee Bean the other day, and realized for the first time that "straw" is a four-syllable word. No joke. Suh-tuh-roh-oo.

I was watching TV this morning and kept noticing words like "Si-jon" (as in Nanny 911 Si-jon 3) and "Rah-oon-duh" (like the the three minute divisions in a boxing match.)

I can understand and appreciate loan-words that express a concept in a fresh or succinct way, but didn't straws and seasons and rounds exist before English arrived in Korea?

The French are notoriously resistant to loan-words (there's actually a group called the Academie Francais that leads the charge, aided by the Ministry of Culture), but in their struggle they've come up with some rather beautiful and elegant terms to replace the foreign invaders, like "couriel" instead of "email." They've also recommended words like "baladeur" and "logiciel" instead of "walkman" and "software."
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/world/2003-07-18-french-email_x.htm
(That article was skeptical that 'couriel' would catch on, but I've certainly heard the term used by French people.)

[mithridates]

Here's the page on how it works in Icelandic (one of the least authoritarian places in the world, #1 on the list for lack of corruption and most press freedom):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_purism_in_Icelandic

They have the advantage of having old Icelandic texts being readable to the average person so they know what pure Icelandic looks like, whereas Korea a problem in not knowing exactly what pure Korean would be. Is it Korean stripped of its English words, Japanese ones (they got rid of most of those already), or even all its terms derived from hanja? Or maybe even the opposite, Korean written in hanja? People have differing opinions on that so I doubt anyone could be made to agree in the first place.

What can be done though is to realize that importing massive numbers of foreign loanwords can actually be detrimental to the learning of the language, as well as for other people that are trying to learn Korean. There could also be a bit of cooperation between the two Koreas on shared vocabulary as sometimes one country is capable of keeping the other one from going out of control with the language. I think they've collaborated on a dictionary before. North Korea will have to chill first though before anybody starts to care what kind of Korean they use.


Here's a test Wikipedia in Korean with all the hanja included:

http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/ko-hanja

Here's the article on history:

[denistron]

One of my co-workers told me that 빵 is also apparently the french word for bread. When I told him the word is "pain" he looked at me like I was being ridiculous.

Another french word used that is my all time favorite: pension. It is doubly hilarious because they say it with an English pronunciation.

Any other french ones?

[jaganath69]

[mithridates]

[Qinella]

[mithridates]

[billybrobby]

I think that the way the Korean language uses Chinese is systematic and logical, similar to the way English uses Latin. Whereas the way Korean uses English is just a mess. If you know latin roots, you can hazard a guess as to what a words 'reduction' or 'agriculture' mean. But perfect knowledge of English gives you no clue as to what a word like 오바이트 means. (FYI, this incredibly tortured bit of konglish means "to throw up" and comes from the word "overeat". Albion weeps.)

Despite this, I'm not sure if it's a problem. To be sure, I don't like Konglish. As an English speaker I find Konglish practically offensive, because it treats my only birth-tongue as if it is just a catalogue of trendy utterances to pepper ad copy with. But I think the pertinent question is whether Konglish is really hampering Koreans ability to understand each other. So, they have 2 words for ice. It didn't hurt the eskimoes, did it? (just kidding -- we all know eskimoes are pathetic). And old people can't understand it, but what do old people understand anyways? If that's the criterion, then we wouldn't be able to use any new slang at all.

I guess my main problem with Konglish is the same problem I have with all buzzwords and vogue phrases -- people tend to use them to disguise their own stupidity and lack of innovation. What's worse is when old American buzzwords wash on these shores. I just got done reading a Korean corporate brochure all about "paradigm shifts" and it's been 10 years since the Simpsons declared 'paradigm' to be a word that "dumb people use to sound important."

[Woden]

[jaganath69]

[CentralCali]

[SPINOZA]

[cdninkorea]

[SPINOZA]

Denistron (and others): don't forget 'arbeiter' (simply 'worker' in German, but 'part-time' (plus young, university student?) worker in Konglish, or Kongman).

English borrows words from other languages when it doesn't quite have anything that fits the bill - kiosk from Turkish, Karaoke from Japanese, ombudsman from Swedish, veranda from one of the Indian languages, apartheid from Dutch. This is an excellent policy because it adds depth and shades of meaning to the language. This says much about the English-speaking people � open-minded, tolerant to a fault � as opposed to xenophobes like the French and the North Koreans. The French believe themselves to be superior to the rest of humanity (and certainly to Brits and Americans, despite the fact we saved them from invasion twice) and this is reflected in their policy on foreign (particularly English) loanwords.

Konglish is also a reflection on South Korea � somewhat open to foreign (mainly American) influences but often strictly on their own terms, hence English loanwords in Konglish being completely different in meaning from the original. This is of course very interesting, but frustrating when you�re trying to have a conversation with a Korean person (in a mixture of Korean and English) and they say a Konglish word in the mistaken belief that its meaning has not been Koreanized, like �support/suppotter� � WTF is that?? Totally irrelevant to the discussion we were having. I asked for a Korean word instead, and he seemed to be talking about public/state services.

[Alyallen]