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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: 100 Lies of Chomsky |
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Incredible.
I have been reading and taking seriously Noam Chomsky for years. I have always known that he, like most all leftists I know of, ignores the crimes of his ideological ilk (the right does it too, yes). But the level of dishonesty is actually appalling.
http://www.paulbogdanor.com/100chomskylies.pdf
Give the above a read. It is well cited. Biased, yes. But take each claim on merit. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ROFL. Only 100...? |
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bonanzabucks
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| My friend's dad lives in the same neighborhood as him in Boston. For a self-avowed socialist, he sure has a HUGE collection of fancy cars! |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Seriously, go through the list. It is amazing. The dude has said some really crazy stuff.
I can't believe he is the most cited living academic on earth. |
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bonanzabucks
Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Location: NYC
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I can. Like some academics, Chomsky seems to have fallen into the trap of believing that he knows everything about stuff not related to the field in which he does actually know things. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| ...go through the list. |
I read the Latin-American section. Mostly spot-on. (I disagree with what Chomsky says about Arbenz and I also disagree with what his critic says.)
The thing about Chomsky and most of the other muckraking America-haters is that they think "the greater good" authorizes them to invent and/or overstate at least half of what they allege -- not to mention placing the United States in the center of everything, everywhere, as if we were the puppetmaster. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| ...go through the list. |
I read the Latin-American section. Mostly spot-on. (I disagree with what Chomsky says about Arbenz and I also disagree with what his critic says.)
The thing about Chomsky and most of the other muckraking America-haters is that they think "the greater good" authorizes them to invent and/or overstate at least half of what they allege -- not to mention to place the United States in the center of everything, everywhere, as if we were the puppetmaster. |
For fear of sounding like one of them...
America is the essentialized 'other' for most of the world. It doesn't exist as it is, but as a collection of narratives of what not to do/be/believe etc. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| America is the essentialized 'other' for most of the world. It doesn't exist as it is, but as a collection of narratives of what not to do/be/believe etc. |
Yes. We are proof that people who rail against harsh stereotypes craftily talk the talk without intending to actually walk the walk.
Just ask Michael Moore: we are the stupidest people on Earth. Why? Many of us are monolingual and do not have passports. Hold on a second. Would somebody like to apply that criteria to "the rest of the world" too...? (China, most of the Middle East, most of Africa, most of Latin America and the Caribbean, I imagine that even among the high and mighty in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Western Europe there are at least some who speak only one language and do not have passports, either...) |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| America is the essentialized 'other' for most of the world. It doesn't exist as it is, but as a collection of narratives of what not to do/be/believe etc. |
Yes. We are proof that people who rail against harsh stereotypes craftily talk the talk without intending to actually walk the walk.
Just ask Michael Moore: we are the stupidest people on Earth. Why? Many of us are monolingual and do not have passports. Hold on a second. Would somebody like to apply that criteria to "the rest of the world" too...? (China, most of the Middle East, most of Africa, most of Latin America and the Caribbean, I imagine that even among the high and mighty in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Western Europe there are at least some who speak only one language and do not have passports, either...) |
Exactly right.
I studied with a large number of muslims and Chinese while doing my masters degree. It is very clear to me that they fully accept the propaganda their leaders feed them. For them, America is just a series of bad stories they have been told.
Actually, it is quite similar to how leftists see the 'States. Soviet propaganda was very eagerly absorbed by the so-called academy during the cold war. The effects of this are still felt today.
I'm re-reading the 100 lies. Chomsky just denies all communist crimes! No wonder douchbag college kids around the world wear Che shirts. They have no damn idea what happened! They are too busy reading lies!
About the monolingual.
When my girl did her masters degree in linguistics, she showed me an article where a Swedish "academic" has argued that monolingualism is a "mental disorder" and ought to be included in the DSM. I wonder who that was aimed at... |
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Bingo
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| I wonder who that was aimed at... |
Europeans have been harshly judging non-Europeans by strictly Eurocentric standards for over five-hundred years. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| I wonder who that was aimed at... |
Europeans have been harshly judging non-Europeans by strictly Eurocentric standards for over five-hundred years. |
That is because your system isn't compassionate like theirs. |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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just started reading the list , to be fair a lot of the points are just counter arguments which do not really disprove Chomsky's points taken out of context
I had to stop and post because  Whats all this about the US and UK supporting Nazi armies against the Russians?? Thats pretty fucking offensive. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| safeblad wrote: |
| ...a lot of the points are just counter arguments which do not really disprove Chomsky's points taken out of context. |
Chomsky, like many of his cheerleaders, play fast and loose with the facts. This is a nice list, from what I can see, that documents just how fast and loose. Look at Chomsky's taking Dobyns's high estimate at face-value and mixing up the death-by-warfare and death-by-disease in the Columbian Exchange ("Lies about Modern History No. 10"). Did he even review the literature on this before making his assertions? Or did he just think here was a good place to allege "massive genocide?"
In their haste to prosecute and convict America of being evil, then, most leftists do not even take the time to get their facts straight. Take William Blum's accusing us of assassinating Salvador Allende or Chalmers Johnson's accusing us of trying to overthrow the democratically-elected Sandinistas as two off-the-top-of-my-head other-than-Chomsky examples.
So what? For one thing, their cases against the prosecution are not so clear-cut and as tight as these critics would have their readers believe. Have they mastered the material they propose to discuss or not?
And ultimately, there is enough to criticize people for, including the American govt, without resorting to such sneaky craftiness and/or lazy overstatement.
"Just the facts, 'mam." Do such statements mean nothing to prosecutorial-minded, leftist academics anymore? |
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