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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:13 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Sooke"]I think some of these guys want us to say "Canada hates the US for no other reason than petty jealousy" or something along those lines. As is often the case, it is not a black and white issue.
The current 'Anti-Americanism' in Canada is a tad overstated, especially on this board. Sure there are some people who dislike the American way of doing things, but there are plenty of Americans who have the same opinion. I tend to think that American conservatives cannot accept the fact that a country so similar culturally, economically, etc does not just become a part of the states (Was it Reagan who said that he didn't want Canada in the Union because it would add 20 million Democrats to the voter lists?Somebody said it.)
[That was a brilliant post. It is very simplistic to say Canadians simply have irrational suspicions of the government of their neighbour and the powers and shakers to the south of them. Frankly, if Canada was part of the U.S., it would be much easier for a democrat to win an election in the U.S. and for the U.S. to have universal health care. Just a thought there.
Anyway, Canada was long connected to England and Loyalists fled to Canada. Canadian territory has long been sought by the U.S. England gave Canadian territory to the United States much to the chagrin of the first prime minister, there was the war of 1812, the interference in the election campaign between Diefenbaker and Pearson, and there was
also the former ambassador of the US to Canada lecturing Canada, a sovereign country, for not entering into the War in Iraq.
Imagine if a Canadian politician in Washington D.C. started lecturing Americans. They would be incensed. I don't suppose that promotes good feelings? Also, the current administration's bullying of European countries and lecturing them for not going to war didn't help matters. Canadians don't simply look at attitudes towards their country but also how others are treated. I mean if you turn on satellite TV are you going to find tons of good will based on the actions of this government. More positive vibes were out there when Clinton was president. He seemed to represent what people love about America. There are many things Canadians truly love about America, but gun crime, right wing religious people, people like Bush represent what they can't stand at all. Many people in the world feel the same way. Maybe they are all wrong about that and deluded?
Opinions are all relative...
However, some of the opinions from some Candians go too far, I will grant that. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Do you think Canadians actually care if everyone in the world is talking about them...? |
As a matter of fact, I do. I do not think Canadadians are so much jealous of America and its greatness inasmuch as they are consumed by an inferiority complex very much like the South Koreans'.
And Canadians respond to this identity crisis by constantly measuring themselves against America, telling themselves they come out ahead in nearly every category...and then there are the maple leafs on the backpacks, which, among other things, advertise that Canada exists to anyone who cares to look and wonder what it means.
And, finally, yes, as far as non-Canadian historians go, Canada does not even appear as a footnote in either of the World Wars. As far as what the Brazilian and Chilean high-school and university students who I observed learned, America, Britain, Russia, and France, and other lesser allies, fought the Axis Powers in the Second World War.
Brazil, of course stresses its own "heavy" contributions to the war effort -- but that probably sounds about as foreign to you as your protesting Canada's "heavy" role would sound to Brazilians.
I also note this chronic way Canadians talk about Canada...
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Canada is not a country that has had empires, conquered countries, and it has not led major wars. |
Like Molson's "Joe Canada," the vast majority of Canadians apparently cannot talk about what Canada is and what it means without scorning America and proclaiming nothing more substantive than that which it is not. |
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darkhorse_NZ
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
And, finally, yes, as far as non-Canadian historians go, Canada does not even appear as a footnote in either of the World Wars. As far as what the Brazilian and Chilean high-school and university students who I observed learned, America, Britain, Russia, and France, and other lesser allies, fought the Axis Powers in the Second World War.
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That's an extremely rough call Gopher! If that is the case, it's usually because Commonwealth efforts are absorbed into the larger British effort in many history books.
But still, rough call, mate, rough call. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Do you think Canadians actually care if everyone in the world is talking about them...? |
As a matter of fact, I do. I do not think Canadadians are so much jealous of America and its greatness inasmuch as they are consumed by an inferiority complex very much like the South Koreans'.
And Canadians respond to this identity crisis by constantly measuring themselves against America, telling themselves they come out ahead in nearly every category...and then there are the maple leafs on the backpacks, which, among other things, advertise that Canada exists to anyone who cares to look and wonder what it means.
And, finally, yes, as far as non-Canadian historians go, Canada does not even appear as a footnote in either of the World Wars. As far as what the Brazilian and Chilean high-school and university students who I observed learned, America, Britain, Russia, and France, and other lesser allies, fought the Axis Powers in the Second World War.
Brazil, of course stresses its own "heavy" contributions to the war effort -- but that probably sounds about as foreign to you as your protesting Canada's "heavy" role would sound to Brazilians.
I also note this chronic way Canadians talk about Canada...
| Adventurer wrote: |
| Canada is not a country that has had empires, conquered countries, and it has not led major wars. |
Like Molson's "Joe Canada," the vast majority of Canadians apparently cannot talk about what Canada is and what it means without scorning America and proclaiming nothing more substantive than that which it is not. |
You kind of got that wrong. They don't want to lumped with the United States. That is not the same thing as wanting the French or Germans to know everything Canadians do or have invented. America is not popular, and also America has sought, in the past, to dominate the Americas or parts of it including Canada, so, of course, Canada and Canadians would feel a sort of complex at being next to agent. You would, too, if the giant was agressive? But do Canadians really care that people in England know so much about Canada or people in New Zealand. Not really...Canadians and Americans are those who created North American culture and are a product of it. Canadians are just more uniform, and they are near the North American giant that flexes its muscles a lot. I am sure that would make many nervous.
The people who are more like Koreans are Americans, not Canadians. Koreans like Americans. You could argue it either way. Canadians are not insular as much as Americans are in my opinion. That is my opinion.
Canadians don't really talk about isolationism.
Canadians don't feel they are superior to Europeans or others. They might sometimes think they are better than their neighbour to the south but the neighbour feels the same way... Big deal. You keep measuring things regarding the U.S. If you are saying Canada in relation to Europeans things change. The French could have an inferiority complex using your logic and in some ways so do Americans with all that muscle flexing and agressive behaviour. Regardless of what the world writes in history books, Canada helped saved Britain in World War I and so did ANZAC troops. Remember, Commonwealth soldiers were under the British flag. You forgot that. Canada until 1937 was essentially part of England and served the country. I think a fellow from New Zealand sort of brought that up...How much do the books talk about Australian contributions? I am sorry but this kind of talk almost seems like spitting on the graves of those soldiers...
As far as how Canadians are different than Americans, there are many, many ways, but Americans are like Canadians you can say because they are both North Americans just as New Zealanders and Australians are from Oceania. Americans didn't great North American culture and invent it. It is something shared naturally. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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There's a lot of misinformation floating around in this thread.
Yes there are Canadian troops in Iraq (some 30 odd the last time I checked) as part of a troop exchange.
No they are not involved in the war directly, they have desk jobs or something of the sort (again the last time I checked).
Google is your friend. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| darkhorse_NZ wrote: |
| That's an extremely rough call Gopher! |
My apologies, then. No offense intended towards my good friends in New Zealand. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Re: Canadians in Vietnam and Iraq:
Canadian Foreign Policy: Until recently (according to many Canadian nationalists), Vietnam was an immoral nasty capitalist American imperialist fiasco, but lately it has been to advantageous to claim (admit) that Canada also sent/exchanged troops. Why? If the war turned out OK, then Canadians could claim to have shouldered their share of the burden while still keeping the option of disavowing any part in the war if it turned out bad.
Iraq: Ditto the above. |
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