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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Iraqi Christians were safer under Saddam |
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VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Although Iraq has a democratic government, Iraqi Christians were safer and had more protection under former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, said the future head of the Vatican's interreligious dialogue council.
During the buildup to the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, French Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, who will become head of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue Sept. 1, had criticized the U.S. government's plan of preventative war and said a unilateral war against Iraq would be a "crime against peace."
In a recent interview with the Italian magazine 30 Giorni, the cardinal said his early criticisms had been prophetic.
"The facts speak for themselves. Alienating the international community (with the U.S. push for war) was a mistake," he said in the magazine's Aug. 10 issue. A copy of the interview was released in advance to journalists.
He said an "unjust approach" was used to unseat Saddam from power, resulting in the mounting chaos in Iraq today.
"Power is in the hands of the strongest -- the Shiites -- and the country is sinking into a sectarian civil war (between Sunni and Shiite Muslims) in which not even Christians are spared," he said.
Christians, "paradoxically, were more protected under the dictatorship," he said.
Cardinal Tauran is a longtime veteran of the Vatican's diplomatic service and a specialist in international affairs. He was Pope John Paul II's "foreign minister," the official who dealt with all aspects of the Vatican's foreign policy from 1990 to 2003.
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Isn't it ironic.....don't ya think? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Haven't you heard, Alias? Everything was better under Saddam. In fact, some are even moving to canonize the man. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Haven't you heard, Alias? Everything was better under Saddam. In fact, some are even moving to canonize the man. |
No I haven't.  |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Kurds 20% of the population and Shias 60% weren't better off. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Kurds obviously weren't but I would like to see a poll to show me that the average Shia is more satisfied with the state of Iraq today. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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You think the Shia would rather have Saddam back who killed them and wish the US had never taken him down?
Furthermore the Shia could end most of the insurgency tomorrow all they would need to do is submit to the rule of the Sunnis.
You are talking out of your nose.
Futhermore their leaders many of the Abdul Aziz al-Hakim. Ayatollah Sistani and the current Malaki government have thrown their hat in with the US.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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nicholas_chiasson
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Location: Samcheok
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Shi muslims like to cover themselves in blood and dance in the streets while waving machine guns and being martyrs. Hmmmmm wonder why Sadaam didn't like them.
-Source: Lebanese relatives |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| nicholas_chiasson wrote: |
Shi muslims like to cover themselves in blood and dance in the streets while waving machine guns and being martyrs. Hmmmmm wonder why Sadaam didn't like them.
-Source: Lebanese relatives |
Pretty gross generalization, mon frere. There is a lot of diversity among Shiites and Iraqi and Lebanese Shiites are not the same per se.
Things are worse for Christians in Iraq that is true. However, for the Kurds things are somewhat better due to American help. As far as the Shiites, it is hard to say if things are better. For some, things are better in some areas. Under Saddam, there was so much centralized power under the dictatorship, it was so much easier to do things, but it is harder with disorganized power, corrupt American corporations (not all of them), Iraqi politicians pocketing money, squabbling between Sunni and Shiite politicians, and militias out there. There are a lot of problems to deal with, no doubt... |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| nicholas_chiasson wrote: |
Shi muslims like to cover themselves in blood and dance in the streets while waving machine guns and being martyrs. Hmmmmm wonder why Sadaam didn't like them.
-Source: Lebanese relatives |
Pretty gross generalization, mon frere. There is a lot of diversity among Shiites and Iraqi and Lebanese Shiites are not the same per se.
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Nicholas is correct.
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| Although suffering and cutting the body with knives(Churrio ka matam)have been prohibited by most Shi'a marjas like Ali Khamenei, Supreme Leader of Iran ,[10], some Shi'a observe mourning with blood donation which is called "Qame Zani" [11] and flailing[12]. Certain rituals like the traditional flagellation ritual called zanjeer zani or zanjeer matam, involving the use of a zanjeer (a chain) are also performed[13]. These are not religious customs but are popularly done for the sake of Imam Hussain and his family. Many Shia's today in the West give blood to the Red Cross when commemorating the blood that spilled in Karbala. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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This was a good comment
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What good will did we lose? When did we ever have it?
This nation is never given credit for all we do. Freeing 2 nations in the last 6 years is not enough i guess.
Although it was not just the USA, it was a coalition of brave countries, ready to defend all free people. The liberals will pummel you over the head with the bush bashing. you would think , GW made the desicion alone.
Hilary was there, as was Kerry, (Edwards), and the rest. All ready to take the tyrant out!
It has always been popular for outsiders to hate the USA. Everyone hates that their country is not #1, so they hate us... no matter what we do or dont do.... that I can understand!
What I dont understand is how people like you (liberals) never have solution.
After 9/11 we put the world on notice.
No more freebies:
on our embassys ,
our troops ,
and our homeland! So, in that regard, the Iraq war is related.
Let"s review.......... we ended a war in 1991 with Iraq, but there were conditions!
12 YEARS LATER .........AND 17 UN RESOLUTIONS......., AND THEY STILL DONT COMPLY.........
SADAMM .....THE MANIAC DICATATO ....KNOWN USER OF WMD.......... THAT IS THE REASON WE WENT TO WAR........ BECAUSE AS A COUNTRY ........WE WERE TIRED OF GETTING JERKED AROUND .......... AND THE WORLD NEEDS TO SEE THAT WE MEAN WHAT WE SAY........
don't liberals realize how bad WMDs are to the enviroment ......
they cause global warming ..........i know they may agree with that............
It is one thing for the jelous around the world to try and stymie our power, but as an American .... you should be ashamed . Oh and stop worring about the rest of the world hating us, last I checked people were still dying to try and make a life here! |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Alias wrote: |
| Kurds obviously weren't but I would like to see a poll to show me that the average Shia is more satisfied with the state of Iraq today. |
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| Only 2% of Sunnis questioned believed it was absolutely or somewhat right to have invaded, while 78% said it was absolutely wrong. By comparison, 70% of Shia respondents said the decision to invade Saddam Hussein's Iraq was absolutely or somewhat right. |
http://www.axisofevildoers.org/cache/2007/2007.03.19_305423009.html
Iraq is 20% Kurd, 20% Sunni and 60% Shia.
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The nationwide survey, the most comprehensive look at Iraqi attitudes toward the occupation, was conducted in late March and early April. It reached nearly 3,500 Iraqis of every religious and ethnic group.
The poll shows that most continue to say the hardships suffered to depose Saddam Hussein were worth it. Half say they and their families are better off than they were under Saddam. And a strong majority say they are more free to worship and to speak. (Related item: Key findings) |
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm |
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The Perfect Cup of Coffee
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Probably had something to do with Tariq Aziz being a Christian himself. But then again, his brand of "Christianity" was pretty warped considering who his former boss was for all those years. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| nicholas_chiasson wrote: |
Shi muslims like to cover themselves in blood and dance in the streets while waving machine guns and being martyrs. Hmmmmm wonder why Sadaam didn't like them.
-Source: Lebanese relatives |
Pretty gross generalization, mon frere. There is a lot of diversity among Shiites and Iraqi and Lebanese Shiites are not the same per se.
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Nicholas is correct.
| Quote: |
| Although suffering and cutting the body with knives(Churrio ka matam)have been prohibited by most Shi'a marjas like Ali Khamenei, Supreme Leader of Iran ,[10], some Shi'a observe mourning with blood donation which is called "Qame Zani" [11] and flailing[12]. Certain rituals like the traditional flagellation ritual called zanjeer zani or zanjeer matam, involving the use of a zanjeer (a chain) are also performed[13]. These are not religious customs but are popularly done for the sake of Imam Hussain and his family. Many Shia's today in the West give blood to the Red Cross when commemorating the blood that spilled in Karbala. |
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No, he is not. I have Shiite friends who have never, ever, ever done this. Some Shiites do this, and Nicholas was saying most do. There is a clear difference. It is not generally true that Shiites do this, we can only say many clearly do this. There is a diffrence.
Back to the Christians, Saddam Hussein had a secular system in place. Christians were not interested in a religious state and had many people in the socialist parties including Tareq Aziz whose original name was Youhanna (John) and one of Saddam Hussein's former best friends was a Christian who was killed by his son Uday. He almost killed his own son over the killing of his Christian friend. Arafat and others supposedly urged him not to kill his son and Saddam relented. I figure he felt Uday might come in handy at some point.... |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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The nationwide survey, the most comprehensive look at Iraqi attitudes toward the occupation, was conducted in late March and early April. It reached nearly 3,500 Iraqis of every religious and ethnic group.
The poll shows that most continue to say the hardships suffered to depose Saddam Hussein were worth it. Half say they and their families are better off than they were under Saddam. And a strong majority say they are more free to worship and to speak. (Related item: Key findings)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm |
Over 3 years old.
Most Iraqis Want U.S. Troops Out Within a Year
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| A new WPO poll of the Iraqi public finds that seven in ten Iraqis want U.S.-led forces to commit to withdraw within a year. An overwhelming majority believes that the U.S. military presence in Iraq is provoking more conflict than it is preventing and there is growing confidence in the Iraqi army. If the United States made a commitment to withdraw, a majority believes that this would strengthen the Iraqi government. Support for attacks on U.S.-led forces has grown to a majority position�now six in ten. Support appears to be related to a widespread perception, held by all ethnic groups, that the U.S. government plans to have permanent military bases in Iraq. |
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demaratus
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Location: Searching for a heart of gold, and I'm gettin' old
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I have many Iraqi-Canadian friends who are Christians. They all agree that Christians were far safer under Saddam. However they also agree though that is it good he is gone and in fact they only came to Canada to escape his regime. |
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